It’s kind of scary how people from the US love their guns and rifles. I mean, what’s wrong with you? Do you go like “Hey dude, check out my brand new Blabla-techtech-number rifle! I bet I could snipe the president with this one..” and he’s all like “Awesome man! You’re like dangerous! Cool!”? If it wasn’t for actiongames I bet the whole fucking country was in its second or third civil war..
Wow…such misinformed retards. To think that they actually beleive that is a Airsoft. You can tell just by looking at it and the detail etc that it is not. Beautiful Gun by the way. And for the Liberal pansy who thinks that people buy guns just for killing people, you need to get a clue. People don’t just own guns to kill people. Many, in fact most have guns as a form of sport or for hunting as well as hobby. So please save us your liberal banter as you clearly have nothing intelligent to say or worth hearing.
That is true, but my friends got a modified M4, with a metal body, the works, it weighs pretty much the same and looks real, infactt the only way you notice its airsoft is either by taking the mag out and obviously seeing, or cocking it back and seeing the Hop-up system hehe.
Ive seen just about every gun modified to an airsoft, so i only assumed this was.
Yes, it’s indeed sad how Americans still cling onto their weapons, and I surely didn’t expect to see this picture on this particular website. Liberal is totally right, and I don’t buy the sad excuse that guns are a cultural thing from the “new world” where you had to fight for your right (and kill almost all of the natives by doing so).
But you know what surprises me most? That someone who’s so proud of his killing tool (“oh no, guns are not only for killing people, we also shoot at empty cans…”) that he posts a picture of it, so proud of the craft and detail of his penis-enlargement, that he was unable to shoot a clear picture of it.
“I surely didn’t expect to see this picture on this particular website.”
Er…why not?
“I don’t buy the sad excuse that guns are a cultural thing”
I think you should do some research on that. In this area it may not be that you are stupid, but simply ignorant of the facts. Here, let me help you shed the shackles of being uninformed (and this was only a single google query away, shame on you):
“where you had to fight for your right (and kill almost all of the natives by doing so).”
The insinuation that I had anything to do with the people who murdered and stole lands from the native americans is both insulting and idiotic. What, do you want to tell me I should get rid of my slaves, too? Wait, I know — perhaps you should go tell some random german that, “Hey, jews really aint so bad”.
“you know what surprises me most … he was unable to shoot a clear picture of it.”
So, wait … your objection to my owning a firearm is that the picture is out of focus? Or, was that just you running out of ways to inaccurately, poorly, and ignorantly insult anyone who owns a gun?
Besides which, you can check our one of the otherseveralphotos which didn’t come out so blurry if that’s really such a problem for you. I’ll admit, not the best snaps in the world here, but I wasn’t exactly going for “Product worth snaps”, my apologies for ruining your perceptions.
Wow! I’d be tempted to laugh if it wasn’t all so serious.
I’m from Oz and we have tough gun laws which I agree with, however our natives (perhaps one of the oldest human civilizations on the planet) have always had a healthy interest in projectile weapons like the Woomera/spear and Boomerang. It’s not a moral/ethical crime to take pride in an engineering feat that has serious historical significance to our species. It’s possible to appreciate the dexterity challenge of 30meter matchbox shootout with the airgun and NOT feel the urge to harm someone with a bigger/better firearm.
For the tree hugging anti gun lobby I suggest you find a more pressing issue to back, like say… human population growth coz removing the guns won’t stop a determined human. Remember risk is one of the few things you can count on in our known world.
Just purchased my own su for 550.00 plus 40.00 for the forend that is on this weapon. I own several firearms for pleasure, and protetion. I work in a local Emergency Room as an MICN. For those who think that humans need guns to kill or maime one another have something coming to them. We are on top of the food chain for a reason. Projectiles or blade we humans seem to kill each other day in and day out. I love to snipe cans and paper, but don’t forget to knock on my door before entering my home for an ambulance will not pick you up the Coroner will. Northern California as well as the rest of the country have a terrible Meth problem and these people are not in their right minds. Hope to never be meet one in my home. By the way great looking Firearm.
guns make war, people without guns can do nothing.. people with guns dangerous, people with no freinds, killers.. just like at your high school killings.. god damn u amaricans are stupid.. and thats a fact.. im from denmark.. where is denmark? without looking on a map?? tell me.
where is australia, wheres GB. what is GB?? U STUPID FUCKES!!
Oh my lord in heavens! Thank you for opening my eyes. Your eloquent, insightful, and well thought out post has made me realize what a fool I have been!
Guns are the reason we have wars. Wars did not exist before guns[1], or gun powder even existed! Everyone got along just fine and the world was filled with happiness & sunshine forever and ever. If we could just get rid of guns, people would get along just fine[2]! Damn those Americans for inventing guns[3]!
Sad how Americans have guns? Is it sad to have self defense? Is it sad to be able to stand your ground? Is it sad to love your country and be willing to defend it?
I wish I had a gun because I love my country. Go, GUNS!
Besides, it really sin’t the best idea to criticize somebody with a gun when you don’t have one. Think about it.
I respect people who have guns in their posession, though I would never buy one myself.
Just live the way you like it, either with a gun or without it.
I Don’t give a sh*t about ‘that stupid americans’ with all their guns…They say they do it for fun and for protection.
Well I understand that it can be fun to have a gun, I used to have an air rifle myself…but for protection? I dont see myself going to a shop with such a rifle in my hand…
You include owning guns in your bill of rights as if it is a matter of national identity – but in fact all you are doing is raping your own way of life!
The right to bear arms should not be at the price of other’s civil rights – which it inveriably always is.
Nobody American to this day is smart enough to know what the rest of the world has known for centuries.
I’d be really interested to hear your rational behind those statements.
How, exactly, is gun ownership tied to the raping of ones life? More importantly, what do you mean raping?
Also, what other civil rights have been impunged by the right to own firearms? I mean, I could just write that off with the standard “rights to own weapons are what freed America from british rule in the first place” argument, but I am interested in hearing your reasoning.
Finally, if you are as enlightened as you believe yourself to be (all the way over there in Australia) perhaps you would care to educate us instead of touting arrogance around the world under pseudo names and fake email addresses.
What it really comes down to is defending the lives of those you love. Not everyone has your best interest at hart in this world. I believe in the old saying “rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it”. We have this right in America. I’m sorry if you don’t.
I ran across this banter and found it interesting. I own enough guns to scare many of these foul mouthed people.
I can find Denmark on the map, I have traveled the world and am very happy to be home in the USA. I have no desire to leave again.
Your chances of being robbed and killed in London after dark are greater than most US cities. Your grandparents chances of being robbed and beaten at home by punks during broad daylight are greater in London than any US city. Get real, stop hating the guns and start hating the criminals.
By the way, I am better with a sword or knife than a handgun. Guns are illegal in Japan but use a gun, sword, or knife to kill someone and the result is the same. They hang you, shortly after your trial. Now that is a progressive legal system!
Compare my gun to a phallic symbol? Get over it, if you want to make that comparison use a knife or a sword. From what I hear some of your governments are planning on outlawing those too. The knives and swords that is.
Sorry no email address, I cannot do with a mailbox full of hate mail from people who swear and call names.
Erm, did you not read the “223 remmington” part? While I don’t plan on hunting (don’t care too much to stalk, kill, transport, and clean an animal for food), a .223 round is quite capable of killing.
In fact, if you had checked your facts you would know that the entire U.S. military uses it as their standard issue ammunition. (.223 == 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
I am thinking about a SU-16CA. Already have a 1903, Garand, M1A1, AR-15, K98, and Enfield. That will get them excited! I am getting out of match type shooting and looking for something to hunt cans with.
Want to leave it stock, no upgrades. Are they as nice as I am lead to believe? Thanks in advance for the info.
If you get a good one. People are very love/hate with kel-tec’s. The low price is a nice bargain, but it comes with some precautions — you may get a bad build. Now, I’m not talking “blow up in your face” bad, just “failure to eject” annoyances. For fun shoots it’s not a big deal, and if it’s a serious problems there are a number of simple steps to get it up to “AR” quality — or send it back to keltec and they’ll fix it up really nicely.
Firstly, respect to Jeff for a marvellous site in bf2s.com
And feel free to own as many guns as you like, I’m the other side of the pond and I’m guessing even your most high powered gun won’t reach that far. And yes, I’m scared of you even if you have just one gun. Aren’t you supposed to be scared of things that can kill you?
Statistically, with a little bit of googling, I find that in the US in 2004 10654 homicides were committed with guns, and the population was 293,638,158. This gives a ratio of one murder by gun for every 27561 people in the country. In the UK, there were 77 homicides committed with guns, and a population of 59,834,900. This gives a ratio of one to 777,076. Slightly better odds by by maths.
And SSGTWard, I don’t understand the point of “Your chances of being robbed and killed in London after dark are greater than most US cities”. Assuming New York is one of the few that are higher than London, thats like me saying “your chances of being robbed and killed in New York are higher than anywhere in the UK”. You admit that your worst case is worse than ours, so why should I feel in danger? But yes, I agree with you, hate the criminals.
Oh, and when was the last time somebody went on a killing spree in the UK, 1996, after which we banned handguns, and before that, 1987. Before Virginia Tech, when was the last spree in the US. Apparently it was February!
Each to his own, if your guns make you happy and you don’t use them to kill, I’m happy for you. Its not the sane, law-abiding gun owners that are going around murdering people. But their right to have them makes it much easier for those that do to get hold of them. Personally, I feel much safer this side of the Atlantic.
(Oh, and please note, no petty name calling, no foul mouth insults. Not everybody who dislikes guns is abusive.)
SafeDistanceAway, You also have a sense of humor, that is important. If we cannot laugh at ourselves we are taking ourselves too seriously.
I am sorry you are afraid of me that I own guns. If you had an opportunity to become familiar with guns or me you might change your mind but such is life. I have trained and served with some British Commandos. The only people who need to fear them are the bad guys. We were jealous back then of their FN/FALs when we had only M16’s. By the way did you know that your Honorable Prince Charles owns the largest gun collection in the world.
About the number of homicides with guns, what they do not tell you is that they also include criminals shot by police and homeowners protecting their family or property from armed robbers. If you are having homicides committed in Britain with guns it definitely means that the criminals do not play fair doesn’t it.
If you ever get to this side of the pond let me know and if you have the time I can introduce you to match shooting. Believe me, someone does not spend over a thousand dollars on a rifle to rob a liquor store. These rifles are finely tuned sporting arms.
@ European….. How dumb can u be and still have breath? Look at your own history wanker! How many Yanks, Aussies and Kiwi’s have died fighting and WINNING the war’s YOU started and COULDN’T FINISH! Dickhead must be French. Google French Military Victory’s. Guess what comes up….only French Military DEFEAT’S
Also, respect to Jeff for a marvellous site in bf2s.com. Our boy’s in Oz all use your site and LOVE IT! Thx for all your hard work. Oh…and fuck you European!
Hate and anger spewed in the name of peace scares me more than guns.
This quote is probably used constantly, but it still bears repeating.
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes….Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
-Thomas Jefferson
After reading all the whiners comments from Europe and the US about guns I say.
Without guns we would still be British and if your in Europe-without America you would all be goose stepping and speaking well of Hitler-in German. You will be sued if you defend your property/home/family-that’s really neat and something to be proud of. Saying guns are responsible for murder is like saying cameras are responsible for pornography. We have around 200 million guns in the hands of the citizens here and most of those killed no one today. We assume responsibility for our own protection. You guys can wait for your law enforcement to arrive and save you or wait for the US to do so. Yes we are an imperfect country, no doubt, and we have stuck our noses into things that we should have stayed out of but there is no greater country anywhere nor has there ever been.
think there is another explanation for the number of homicides that occur in the US… Geography. I lived in Arizona for 15 years, and we had a high homicide rate, the biggest cause of that was drug trafficking. Because of the size of its boarders, and its proximity to the drug producing countries of the world, it is extremely difficult to stop these drug/arms dealers. In contrast look at Japan, Australia, and Britain, countries with low homicide rates, all are islands, all are across the ocean from the major drug producing nations, and because of those geological facts, they have a much easier time controlling what/who comes into the country. I now live in California, which has some of the tightes gun laws in the country. I just purchased a SU-16c, and already own a XD-40, I live in the city so the only place for me to shoot is at a range, that said, I enjoy the sport of it, and work hard to make sure that if I should need to use my weapon, that I am able to do so efficiently. It been said that no country on earth would be able to invade the united states because of the fact that private citizens are armed well enough to repel an invading army. we all know how easy it was for the mainland of Europe to be invaded in WW2. Its interesting that before hitler started rounding up people that he disarmed the public, ensuring that there would be no resistance.
People kill people, not guns. Ted Bundy sure as hell didn’t need a gun. Besides, id like to see one of you guys stick with your opinions when a 700 pound hog comes to say hello. And to go as far as to say that without guns, there would be no war? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA OHHHHHhhhhhh damn. that was funny. the fact is, we will always have war, yep. Thats right, take out all the guns in the world, we’ll use knives, swords, planes, bombs, sticks, rocks and whatever the hell we can get our hands on b/c people like you go around pissing other people off b/c your opinion is the only one thats right…uhhh yeaaaahhhh.
I use a bushnell holosight now. This is pictured with a Barska 4-10x (I recall) — and I DO NOT recommend them, as mine fell apart in a few short months. Blegh.
Also, the model you’re looking at above IS the CA model. :)
Are you using the stock extractor? I’ve heard that some Kel-Tec’s don’t have the best extractor unit and many users are swapping them for Bushmaster’s AR-15 extractors. Are you in California? Because this seems to be one of the best .223 semi rifles you can get that actually has an ejectible magazine.
Yeah, I am. They’ve really improved them since the initial reported problems, honestly. I am in Cali. SF to be exact, so I’m quite familiar with gun law difficulties. The CA is probably one of, if not the, best rifle to get here.
–In 2006, 42,642 people died in traffic crashes, a drop of 868 deaths compared to 2005. –> http://www.nhtsa.gov/
–In 2004 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 29,569 gun deaths in the U.S. –> http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm
Funny how you see fit to ban something you don’t like, but conveniently ignore the most widely abused, neglected, and available weapon in the US – automobiles.
“We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm”…. Im an active duty U.S. Marine and I guess im one of the afore mentioned “rough men”. I’ve been shooting guns my whole life and I’ve never killed anyone. Im a relatively peaceful person unprovoked. However, threaten my family and it doesnt matter if i have a gun or not cause’ your taking a dirt nap one way or the other.
Edmund Burke (a british statesmen) said “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”. The criminals will get guns illegaly but you will deny the “good men” the ability to protect their own civil liberties. The world is a violent place and as civilized as mankind may be, we are savages at heart with visceral instincts that date back to primordial man. Just because I am equipped to kill someone doesnt make me a “killer”. {for you liberals} your mother’s are “equipped” to be whores but are they ???
It seems to me that everyone who is “anti-American”, “I hate guns” and so on are all very angry. Maybe the reason you don’t have guns is because you would be the ones to misuse them. Everyone who posts on here in favor of gun freedom seems to try and give a rational argument without resorting to childish name-calling and ridiculous generalizations. I’ve traveled around the world. I’ve been to so many different places that don’t allow guns. And I have seen that street crime, violent crime, and all crime in general is NO DIFFERENT. If you are a criminal and you want to rob a bank, the fact that guns aren’t allowed in your country won’t stop you. Guns don’t create crime. Crime is everywhere. Crime can be caused by poverty, poor education, drugs, and other things, but simply being allowed to own a gun does not make you into a criminal or a warmonger. If you don’t like guns, that’s fine, don’t buy one. But at the very least, keep an open mind and don’t resort to petty name-calling.
@ Simple, I have a healthy disdain for Americans in principle, most of whom show an incredibly ignorant and close-minded viewpoint of the world that in my experience appears to be entirely unique. Things like referring to Europe as a single country, not being able to locate any other country on the map, etc. are more obvious facets of an outlook that runs much deeper and is quite peturbing. However, there is a healthy majority that form the exception to this ‘rule’, and judging an entire nation or race as Anony-dane up there did is simply silly and quite honestly hypocritical. I would not make the mistake of thinking that all those with a dislike for you folks is stupid and/or angry–that’s a cheap shot and horrendously unfair if you consider your antics when vacationing outside of North America. (The English are also guilty of this, though less infamous for it–at least up to now).
I have no problem with people owning guns, but I do think it is a little perverse and incredibly misguided for your average guy to own a fully tac-ed out special forces issue assault rifle and still declare its ownership as ’self-defence’. I also believe America has an intrinsically violent and/or confontational element to its culture that makes gun ownership both unavoidable and also rather unwise. Coupled with the availability of firearms in your country, even the smallest of small-time criminals could be armed with a firearm, something which is much more unlikely in countries with strict gun laws (though I must say, gun crime is definitely on the rise here in the UK–something which appears to be the result of a perhaps romanticised cultural affinity with the gang element of the US).
@ SSGT: You say that it is more likely to find yourself a victim of violent crime in London than in most American cities. What you fail to realise is that London has a metropolitan population of ~14 million, which is around the same size as LA and larger than Chicago. I would like to know the compared crime statistics of London, Chicago and LA, taking into account London’s Urban area of 609 sq mi versus Chicago’s 2122.8 and LA’s 1667.9 sq mis. It is ridiculous to compare London to, say, Des Moines; that’s like saying it’s more likely to get shot in New York than it is in Grimsby–duh!
Jeff, you make a good point in that removing guns from society will not stop determined criminals from committing gun crimes. However, I feel it is somewhat short-sighted statement. Can you honestly say that spree killings such as the Columbine massacre were not at least partially helped along by the cheap and generally easy availability of guns in your country? Why is it that in Britain, such gun-related spree killings are almost unheard of since the crackdown after the Dunblane massacre? Putting a gun in easy reach of people of a less-than stable mindset is asking for trouble; impassioned arguments, minor grievances, they all become much more serious when a firearm is close at hand.
Like I said, I’ve got nothing against gun ownership as long as it is strictly controlled and monitored and, overall, appropriate–that means no M249 SAWs for your fat walty types with custom dogtags and aviator sunglasses. We might regret it should a zombie scourge overrun the earth, but I doubt it, eh?
hey bens, you can’t buy a tac-ed special forces issue assault rifle, you can only buy a semi-auto rifle.
Which it doesn’t make any difference other than the looks and reliability of any gun.
Just because in England you can’t buy scissors because it’s too dangerous, doesn’t mean that because America has legal gun ownership, everyone can buy a fully equipped machine gun.
And really people in london are so narrow minded and bad tempered that a police officer round each corner of the street is needed.
And to think that they don’t have access to guns.
As if your culture is better, you still have a freaking queen, and half of your population are assholes and cranky.And I really hate people’s habits in the UK. Just because US citizens are defensive it doesn’t mean they are violent. Compare your little country to the USA and say it that you have as much of a concentrated crime as USA has it scattered through it.
thats a cool looking gun, ive never seen one of those before. i will have ot look for more info and maybe get one if there not to much, but from looking at it, im thinking a price range of about $1.800 with the scope ?
and alcohol is sold on every corner and kills more people then guns ever will, so everyone take a pussy pill and tell us something we haven’t heard before. people are always going to use weapons in crime. i think i would rather get shot then stabbed…
Yeah, i just noticed that after i went looking heh.
hard to find that adxact style though when i was looking, pretty cool though. i just might get one. does it feel nice ? or does it feel kinda cheap ?
I can’t compare it to something like an AR-15 since I’ve only ever really shot that once. However, I’m quite satisfied with it. Once broken in, it was super reliable and I really enjoyed shooting it. Never felt like a toy.
The argument against gun ownership is as asinine as the debate against legalized marijuana. If you don’t stop to take into consideration the already legal ‘dangerous’ things in our society you lose the perspective to argue your position clearly.
The Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 19, 2005, Vol. 293, No. 3, p. 298, reported on the leading causes of death in the United States:
* Tobacco (435,000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths)
* Poor diet and physical inactivity (400,000 deaths; 16.6%)
* Alcohol consumption (85,000 deaths; 3.5%)
(Note: 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related vehicle crashes are included in both Alcohol consumption above and Motor vehicle crashes below.)
* Microbial agents (75,000)
* Toxic agents (55,000)
* Motor vehicle crashes (43,000)(see Note above)
* Incidents involving firearms (29,000)
* Sexual behaviors (STDs, hepatitis B and C, and cervical cancer) (20,000)
* Illicit use of drugs (17,000)
Looking at evidence that is readily available, you should be a lot more fearful about alcohol abuse, tobacco use, fatty foods, cars, chemistry in general and living a lazy lifestyle than with gun ownership.
I’d also like to say that as an American ‘liberal’ who is also a gun collector (and multi-lingual world traveler), we are not always so easy to categorize into the ’stupid American’ mold. I’m proud to be an American, but I’m not of a nationalist mentality like those who throw around generalities about an entire culture.
Gun collecting is no different than playing football, or collecting stamps. The only difference is in your perception of the activity…if you don’t understand it, it does not necessarily follow that it is a wrong thing.
Paul, I got it from a store on Mission st. Can’t recall the name though, srry. It’s the only gun store in SF though, lol.
I believe you can still rent the A version at Jackson Arms, slightly south of SF, for a moderate fee with some ammo. (While there, I also encourage you to shoot the .50 revolver and the UMC .45 rifle, both loads of fun.)
The price for the CA version hovers around 600 usually.
Paul, you can get that rifle at any local gun shop. Thay are very popular. You can also order online. Check out budsgunshop.com. They have the best deals in the U.S. as far as I can tell.
And for the folks who don’t understand why some Americans own guns; I can only speak for myself because America is composed of a huge diversity of people, cultures, and opinions, when I say: I own guns because responsible recreational shooting is fun!
Paul, I just got me my own SU16-C.
So far It is more value than I expected for the price..
I love the way the Forend Conversion Kit looks in your SU16-CA where did you get it?, If I may..
Good one Jon, hope you have a great shooting with it!
I’m going to the same shop on Mission St. this Saturday, and Jackson Range later to see if I can fire one firsthand. Most probably I’ll end up ordering one this weekend!
And Jon, I e-mailed Kel-Tec about the compact forend (which dissapeared off their website) and haven’t had a response yet…
The second amendment protects our right to own toys. Silly Europeans, half of our country qualifies as a rifle range. Come on down and have some fun. Quit blithering about society and all that crap. Has nothing to do with fun!
What a great comment board! It shows a great variety of people and opinions. And isn’t that the great freedom that guns (among many other variety of weapons) have given to us Americans and non-Americans alike and many of those liberals and anti-gun posters on this site as well. If not for our guns, we very likely would all be saying the same opinion due to government laws that would make us all believe the same thing and act the same way. With that stated, I’d also like to say that I appreciate many of the opinions of those anti-gun individuals on this site. These comments always help me prepare to better understand your opinions which are important for an intelligent conversation. You have your right to your opinion just as I have to mine. But don’t be degrading on a site where you have no business talking. I don’t go to your anti-gun site and post radical and degrading comments about you. So respect our space as well.
What great quotes I will take from this site. A funny one is the one about ‘equipment’ by sgtm8411 :-) Although it may not be the most eloquently stated quote here, but is most likely the most clear, consice, and easy to understand. That was priceless. And let me add a thank you to sgtm8411 for your service to this country! Semper Fi!!
There are just a few comments that I’d like to point out. First of all since it has not been stated here yet (unless I missed it), guns were originally created to aid in killing. I want to be point blank about that. I’m sure the liberals will have fun with that one. Of course gun powder was created initially for war and amusement alike. I want those facts stated up front. I am a proud gun owner and have plenty of them ranging from early 1800 American and English models to modern day assault rifles. So don’t think I’m one of those anti-gunners, but part of a clear understanding of where we are today and where we will be tomorrow is to understand where we were yesterday. Being honest, open, and accepting of the past is crucial for progress. So let the aforementioned statements not be forgotten as they are facts.
HOWEVER, let it also not be forgotten that for many years, guns have been used for other non-war related activities including: recreational activities, Olympic Games (including all countries that have commented in this board), and harvesting food among many others not here mentioned. Additionally, as previously stated when used for wartime, these weapons have afforded us great freedoms that we would otherwise potentially not enjoy.
As has been mentioned many times in this comment board, there are many other forms of weapons that kill many more people every year. Why do these go unnoticed? Politics of course. Individuals will skew, hide, distort, and attempt to destroy any evidence that opposes their desired outcome. This is obvious signs of denial and self-serving intentions. For if facts point to another conclusion then they are in denial about it and/or are obviously lying to attempt to have their opinions accepted. Both side to any debate need to be open and honest. It would be nice if everyone in the world had good intensions in mind at all times. If this was the case, there would be no need to hide and distort the truth; rather they would seek it out because they would want to know the facts so that good could be done. But we don’t live there and most likely never will.
With that said, the fact of today is that others would have their beliefs, ideas, opinions, and ways of life forced upon you if they had their way. Sounds strangely like former leaders around the world… Hitler and Stalin come to mind. That is a disgrace to all those to have died to defend freedom. Freedom is our choice. Freedom is our ability to choose our own decisions and shape our own futures as much as we can. I have no problem if my neighbor hates guns and wants nothing to do with them. That is his/her right and I would defend it just as I would defend my own opinion. However, I will not force him/her to own, carry, shoot, and use a gun. Why should they be allowed to force their ways upon me? They shouldn’t!! Plain and simple!! Freedom in this instance would be for both to live their lives as they see fit. Let the other have their way and live their own life.
Furthermore, to those who here in this comment board have made stereotypical statements, shame on you! I would never make a statement towards an entire people based on the comments and opinions of a few. I’m not perfect and would never claim to be, however I try to base my opinions of an individual solely on their conduct. Just because I may not be as educated in geography as you are, doesn’t mean you are better than me or that I am a bad person. I’ll bet money I can explain the inner working of a computer, software, gun, or a complex mathematically algorithm based on your historical mathematicians better than you can but you know what? That makes me no better of a person and I have no right to criticize you for your ignorance. Ignorance is not a bad thing; it is simply the case of not having the same experiences as you. Nothing more! Our experiences mold us into who we are and what we know. We all would be better off if we were open minded and accepted the fact that we can all learn something new from each other. However if individuals presents themselves as violent and uneducated as is the case with many posting on this board, they have most likely not yet reached the level of understanding for basic conversation and enlightenment. Based on that, there are several individuals in this comment board that I see no purpose in addressing due to the way that you present yourself.
In closing let me say that I am a big fan of Kel-Tec. I have their Sub9. I love to shoot it and would love to get my hands on one of these as well. But more importantly to all that read this posting, please always try to see the other’s point of view. If you can understand their point of view, then it should be very easy for you to show them your point of view. Furthermore, if you see their point of view and allow them to explain their point of view first, then you will have an advantage as you will then be the only one that now knows both points of view. You can use that to articulate your objection/agreement with their points. There is nothing wrong with getting mad and even having to dismiss yourself from a conversation until a further time, that is simply the result of a strong belief in one’s opinion which is of course a good thing. But please attempt to re-enter the conversation yet again to encourage a more intelligent perspective on the subject. I will get mad if you tell me that I should not be allowed to have a gun, but I will listen to your opinion. I will listen so that I may better understand your perspective. I may even agree with if I view the issue from your perspective with your experiences in mind, however please also understand and respect my opinion and perspective. We do not have to agree on anything, we need only be accepting and understanding of each other’s opinions. Don’t beat your head against a wall to please your opponent. If no agreement can be made, simply agree to disagree and live with it. It is stupid and primitive people that rise up in violence or with legislature to oppress those who disagree with their opinion. They are the ones that fight for promotion of enslaving people. For slavery is simply being under the control or direct influence of another person and plainly put, not being able to do as you wish. Intelligent and good willed people can disagree on everything but still live side by side. They are the ones that would fight and live for freedom. This idea is what America fought for and won in our fight for independence. Freedom is a right that all mankind should be able to enjoy. I fear the day when we need to reference a man made law book to see what we can and cannot do. Furthermore I fear the day when a person or people try to tell me what I can and cannot do for that is the day that I will surely die fighting for OUR Freedom!!
Labels are problematic, but in the mainstream sense I am definitely a “Liberal.” But I own several firearms, some 100+ year old ones that I inherited and occasionally take out to shoot, and a nice new Springfield XD40 for home defense. A former instructor of mine once said that a lot of women in particular are anti-gun — until someone starts stalking them. Then they find out that the police are not available 24 hrs a day 7 days a week as a personal protection service, and they have to provide their own security. The firearm is certainly not the entirety of a safety plan, but it does enable a person to protect her- or himself against a physically more powerful attacker, if the would-be victim has taken the time to get decent training and practice with the gun.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
That’s what changed me from a liberal who was against guns (and, to be honest, afraid of them to the point of irrationality) to a liberal who owns, uses, trains with, and likes guns. The more I learn about the world, the more “liberal” I get; the more I learn about people, society, and crime, the more I’m glad I can and do own a modern semiautomatic firearm.
I only wish that I could get a concealed carry permit here in California. Better to have it and not need it….
-Liberal in Los Angeles
p.s. I have had my eye on the SU-16 for a while, too. I would like to get either that, a Ruger Ranch Rifle in .223, or a California-compliant AR15 (probably the best, albeit the costliest, of the three).
I agree with you completely LiberalAndArmed. The only regret I have about buying a gun is that I have started an addiction that can’t be cured. After shooting the SU-16 I now have my eye on buying a Springfield M1A with the JAE 100 stock before it is added as banned on the updated California list. After that a Remington 700, then a Tikka T3 tactical, then a…
…all those guns and I’m still ‘liberal’. Go figure.
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.” – Thomas Jefferson
Better get it fast, I’m sure all .50’s are going to be on the chopping block in CA soon. After all, a lot of liquor stores are robbed with over 40″ long 25lb. single shot rifles with ammo at $5 per. I know I keep one in my coat all the time.
Personally I do shoot, only as a sport though (clay pigeon shooting) and no I’m not from the US or living in the US, I’m in the UK.
In the grand scheme of things, there’s nothing wrong with guns – without them the world wouldn’t be where it is now…and no it wouldn’t necessarily be a better place, just think about.
However, a gun is a serious object and should be shown respect. Personally I feel that flaunting ownership of something like this is slightly childish. I don’t feel the need to show everyone my 12bore, why would I, unless I felt the need to boost my esteem/feel ‘important’ from the comments of others.
Sorry Jeff, I agree that there’s nothing wrong with guns, but there is a problem with the people that show off and brag about owning one.
Rich, do you you feel the same way about cars? Collectibles? Art?
I totally disagree with your comment, there’s nothing wrong with showing off your interests. It would be childish if he was hip-shooting his rifle or acting irresponsible with it…but this is just a picture of a rifle.
Rich, I agree with Paul on this one. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to show what you have. As with any hobby that includes collecting things, it is great to show what you have acquired to your follow collectors. Why do you think museums that show unique collections of anything get such great numbers.
As far as acting irresponsibly as Paul pointed out, I would agree, however, I might say that hip-shooting is actually an art. I would imagine that Rich may know something about that from the clay pigeon ‘world’. Hip shooting with shotguns, and yes with rifles, is a talent all it’s own. With shotguns most anyone can quickly learn, but to hip shot with rifle, particularly at moving targets such as clay pigeons has only been mastered by a few (trust me they’re there, I’ll leave the research to you as I can’t recall the names from the top of my head). Furthermore, another hobby of shooting particularly among veterans is tactical shooting which to someone unfamiliar with the sport might consider irresponsible shooting as this often includes shooting with others in front of the muzzle… an absolute NO NO to any non-trained individual. BE ASSURED I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS WITHOUT EXTENSIVE AND PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. I don’t want to be mis-quoted on that last part, but once again, it is done with much enjoyment, safety, and professionalism every day. If you are into tactical and combat type situations, I might recommend getting training on this and trying it for yourself, BUT DO GET PROFESSIONAL TRAINING FIRST.
Well to get back from my tangent, Paul you are right, there’s nothing wrong with showing a new toy to follow collectors. This will usually include bragging, and hey, what’s wrong with that? Nothing in my book. That’s what keeps up going on looking for the next best thing :-)
Best wishing to all and I hope everyone had a very Merry CHRISTmas and very Happy New Year!!
most firearm murders are commited with an UNREGESTERED FIREARM.
this means the majority of legal firearm owners are not going out and killing people with there firearm…
you might of had a better argument if you argued about the right to own a assualt rifle ( this is a gun made to kill a human being) but
“In fact, Switzerland has more firepower per person than any country in the world, and an average Swiss citizen has more firepower than available to combat troops in many armies. Yet, Switzerland is one of the safest places on the planet, a country where crime is virtually non-existent.”
hmmmm, this must mean GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE
i was thinking about purchasing one but when i held it. it seemed to light.does the forearm and loaded mags in the stock make the su feel more like a firearm and less like a airsoft rifle? ( im not meaning to rag on the su or anthing just would like to know.)
Hay I just wanted to say that as a gun collector for the past 18 years I have had many a friend that was an “ANTI-GUN” person. I have the Same gun you do and it has been My joy to teach the art of shooting to many of my friends that would otherwise have never had the opportunity if it were not for our rights and my collection. It has also been a great joy to talk 3 of my anti-gun friends at different times into coming out to shoot with me, just so they could see first hand how Evil it is. so far All three of them have come to understand at that point that it is a great hobby for the responsible person. There past was filled with people around them filling there brain with the fact that Guns are bad and used to kill people, when seen for themselves that the hobby of guns is a great family oriented sport they now enjoy one of the country’s greatest sports. I too live in California and enjoy shooting my Kel-Tec 4 of my friends have bought them since i first got mine. When using it to teach new shooters I have a simions 3×9 and can ring the 300 yard bell each time, at home or out with my gun friends i have a “HAKKO Blue ring” tac sight on it. I love the gun and yes used it did run about $400.00 but thats not bad in CA for a great shooting, Legal, Semi, rifle. Last of all I feel Very sorry for any of you that life in a place that does not allow you the freedom to enjoy such a great Hobby and Sport, If you ever come to Fresno I would be glad to take you out so you can try for yourself just what it is that we all love so much, Shooting and Gun collecting.
Well for all u dubbahs who still think its airsoft, hopefully not many, there is now way in hell it could be airsoft. The foregrip is entirely too small to fit any good size battery in, and if you note that the stock is hollowed out to fit two extra .223 mags, there is no way it could go there.
I honestly dont care if you abhor guns. Just dont tell me or anyone in a place where it is about a gun(s). Go to some anti gun forum and whine about it there. The the second amendment of the US Constitution states that all US citizens have the right to bare arms. You dont like that… well sucks for you. There’s nothing that can be done about it unles the second amendment is repealed. Which it wont in our lifetime at least. So suck it up. If you are that paranoid of guns go to a country that bans them, I for one am quite content with people owning guns. Sure theres that .01% of gun owners who shouldent own them but hey, you cant control everything.
I think this rifle is rather nice. It combines the perks of both scout rifles and assault rifles.
lol – “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!”
Don’t dis Jeff, he’s got himself a hobby…..thats all! It is a great sport which I wish was allowed in the UK.
Due to an incident in Dunblane (Scotland, EU), hand guns and rifles have been banned for years now. To be honest I believe this is the best thing to happen. However, I wish I grew up with a respect of rifle / pistol shooting, with out the fear of getting arrested.
So now the law has changed as of October 2007. You can only buy an AEG that is a replica, as long as you are a registered skirmisher! That sux ass! I have luckily bought myself an AK-47 Spetsnaz compound AEG. This is a great lil’ plinker. Which means I have the ability of shooting things without the risk of killing someone. I like that alot.
I personally don’t like “Live” guns, but to dis them is not my style. I would change my mind if I was in a gun club. Recently I have joined a BSAC SCUBA club, and went diving for the first time. I was sooooo nervous, but I have now got the bug, and I’m learning the ropes. Guns should only be for the Army and Hobbies. Which, although I don’t know Jeff, I’m sure has a great respect for the “GUN”.
I happen to own guns. I also happen to be a vegetarian (maybe the only vegetarian member of the NRA, hehe). I assure you, I’m well read, far from ignorant, and pretty progressive in a libertarian kind of way.
Here’s the deal, let’s do some logic:
Bad people exist(yeah, I know, it’s sad, I wish it wasn’t like that, but that’s how it is. You feel like being a victim, don’t drag me along with you).
In order for innocent law abiding citizens to defend themselves from said bad people who invariably break laws and societal norms to get what they want, they must be able to equalize the status quo. In other words, when I’m 140 pounds, and 5′10, versus a 200 pound guy, I’m toast, and even my martial arts background isn’t going to help much. If he has a knife, even worse. If he has a gun, the worst.
But: what if I had a gun. He wouldn’t dare come at me if I had one. I, the innocent, am perserved. If he had a gun/knife and I had no gun, I’d be dead. If I had a gun, and he had a gun/knife, at least it equals out the playing field. Imagine if you’re a woman. Even better, a woman can defend herself without needing extensive training or the risk of getting injured at a close distance. That helps avoid rape and death. Wonderful.
To you Europeans, I sympathize, nay, empathize with you. When a government becomes so totalitarian that it prevents people from defending themselves, their family, and their property, I cannot help but feel saddened and enraged on your behalf. You, the innocents, should not have to be victims. If you don’t want to own guns, that is fine, but who are you to tell me that I cannot defend myself either!
You are so correct. However, the ability of owning a gun was still “iffy” at the best of times. When I said “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!†I believe we both agree that this is true. With unfortunate events such as Dunblane, this has made people afraid of being in the vicinity of guns. Yeah yeah yeah they have the ability of killing people, so what? So does a brick or a fountain pen…you just need to use it as a tool.
So to recap, people are the killers not the weapon. If you had a hobby like collecting swords, which is still legal in the UK (well for now anywho), then this is just the same. What is to stop a kid from taking one to school, and running people through, instead of shooting them???
How ever, there is one exception to the rule…(like always)…You can own a shotgun and defend your livestock from attackers, in the UK. Such as dogs or monsters…or ravenous Iraqi’s and Afghans…So really this is a tool for the employee to save his or hers job.
It seems to me that not all Brits and Aussies are happy with the fact that their government has complete control over their lives. Yes some Americans maybe be short sited and narrow minded, but not all. I love my country for the fact that I have the right to make my own choices and the fact the I am the one responsible for those very same choices. “Let Freedom Ring”, I live by that quote, I am sorry most Europeans don’t have the ability to and the youth of those countries never will. But they have no one to blame but themselves…
Hey guys, I have two SU-16CAs. They are great lightweight rifles from target shooting to home defense and totally legal in CA. Sometimes They have a fail to feed or fail to eject problem with factory extractor. This is Usually due to cheap ammo. You can get after market extractors that are relatively inexpensive- ($20 to $30). I change the extractors in both rifles in less than 3 minutes. Very low maintenance and very easy to strip down.
Oh,and don’t let the anti gun losers get you down. It’s still a free country here, at least for now!
To anonymous from denmark all of you over there across the pond would still have a nazi flag over all of your dwellings if it was not for all of us so called “stupid fucks” from America saving your sorry a- well you can figure it out, that if the Muslims haven’t totally taken over europe by now !
billy m , if you’ve ever carried a rifle and 60 pounds of extra gear in 100+ temps. you’d greatly appreciate how lightweight these rifles are. The loaded mags in the stock add almost no or very little difference in weight. Remember they are only 10 round mags not 30s.
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one in CA that appreciates our freedoms and the people who have given those freedoms to us.
So I’m a year plus late on the gun debate “liberal” and the European fellow started but I always chuckle when liberals cast off any gun-wielding Americans as barbaric or suffering from penis envy. I am a liberal and plan to purchase this rifle in a near identical configuration. I think as an open-minded liberal it is foolish to write off any practice without understanding it. Guns are certainly a cultural thing in America, and yes we pay the price annually for it in national murder rates. With that said, Americans have opted to retain their rights to possess firearms. We are all aware of the trade offs, please do not assume everyone who owns a gun wants to kill or is compensating for lack of manhood. Shooting rifles in a non-lethal manner is certainly a sport, as much as archery or horseshoes for that matter- same deal, land a projectile in or near a target. It’s nothing new, and it is not barbaric.
Plus, if the gun looks really cool I don’t think I see a problem with that either.
Jdun: from what I understand, an AR is quite a bit more expensive than the SU16. You can pretty commonly find the SU for 4-500$ compared to starting at about double for AR’s.
There are pros/cons to each, but based on price alone, you get a .223 for half the price.
AR’s are much more expensive, even used it’s hard to find a decent one for less than $1000. Also, it’s somewhat like comparing a stock Toyota Corolla to a (insert mid-level sports car here).
I have to say that my SU-16 was a great rifle to learn on. The trigger is stiff, the build quality is OK at best, but it is reliable and chews through any ammo. I’ve since moved up to a Sako TRG-22, and it’s a world of difference…but I learned a LOT of valuable shooting skills thanks to the ‘rougher’ nature of the SU-16. A great learning rifle, and it also doubles as my back-up zombie killer.
wow…this thread started in Dec 2006 and lasted for a year and a half…as a gun lover, i wanted to read all the comments and post my unbiased opinion but sadly, i have an exam coming up, i’ll join the discussion (and laughing my a$$ off at ignorant comments) once i’m free
jeff, total respect for your site (bf2s), i honestly agree with those saying you should be part of the EA team
yet i which i could really esteem your human conscience…and that you realized what your fighting for by defending free possession of guns.
i’ve lived in the US for a number of years, now im back in europe, and i have to say, americans are a great people, but its a shame that they take a look at the world and remain with their antique ideas.
its sad to say, but 90% of the population is brainwashed by the illusional world that the US leaders have created….
I just had to post a comment to all those individuals criticizing private citizens owning firearms. A firearm by itself is not dangerous, a firearm in the hands of an untrained and irresponsible individual is dangerous. Firearms are the rights of all americans, and they are a part of our identity. Americans have served in every major war and have been the reason why German is not a world language, I think it hypocritical to criticize a people that you relied on so heavily to defend your own people. No country in the world would dare invade the U.S.A, because the american people and their firearms would be here to stand up for themselves where other country rely on us to defend them. That is the reason behind the 2nd Amemdment, we as a people are the militia, a citizen army, greater than any professional army in the world. We have only used weapons as a nation to defend ourselves and have defended others who could nor defend themselves. It is unfair to catorgerize all gunowners as criminals. The greatest wars of all time were created by Europeans and ended by Americans. War was here before guns, and it will be here after them. Europeans shipped criminals to the America’s, Australia, and New Zealand as solutions to their own criminal overload. I think there is a big problem with Europeans differing blame and chastisement on others. Napolean sold us land to settle an outstanding national debt that crippled the French people. Stop attacking us for enjoying our rights, rights that we have earned through our blood for your wars.
Hey Rob, you have just put into words , what I think many of us have felt at one time or another. Your comment about Americans having to end the Great Wars that the Europeans started hit right to the heart of the matter. Comments from others about gun use by criminals vs Responsible gun owners are true as well. Let’s start by “really punishing” those who mis-use fire arms instead of blaming guns. I’ve been around guns all my life from a very young age and I have to say that; through the course of my life I have never seen a fire-arm escape from a safe or gun cabinet-(old days), load itself and then leave its place of residence, take aim at some one and then discharge itself!!
More U.S. citizens were killed here in the States last year by illegal aliens than in the war in Iraq up to that point. Hey here’s an idea , let’s BAN THEM !
Anyhow, JM that’s a nice 16 !
I wish I could say I love you all but what the hell-I’ll be honest, I love some of you and have pitty or dispise the rest !
PEACE-to those of you that don’t take it for granted !
Samuel Colt did more for women’s rights than any other man who ever lived. Sorry that the liberals and culturally deprived descendants of serfs have been slamming this excellent page, but they’ll never grow up enough to deal with the fact that wishing won’t make the goblins change.
Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away! ;-)
Safety.. Safety… Safety… I heard a lot of arguments about irresponsible individuals hurting or killing people with their guns. However, education starts at home even with the kiddies. I think that adults need to be more responsible and also educate their children about the dangers of guns and actually take their kids to a shooting range and show the kids what guns are capapble of doing.Oh…and if you do have kids at home, Get a safe or a gun luck. You chose to purchase a gun. Now…be responsible.
To click click boom, I agree with your comments about education.
However , remember that most of the criminal street element that uses guns are from broken homes where there is no discipline and in some cases the parents are just as bad as the kids. As stated by another earlier most fire arms used in crimes are “black market” weapons.
Moving on , It always makes me chuckle when I read something from a snobbish uptight liberal european (ie.”your-a-pee-on”) that is so arrogant it amazes me that he or she will even waste time to consider us low down scurvy close-minded Americans. They always seem to exude an air of superiority and try to speak as though they are all so much more educated and worldly than the rest of us clowns.
I guess if I was in his or her shoes reading comments from some buffoon like ” lol ” , I would have some disdain as well. That is if lol is even an American Citizen.
Anyhow, JM that’s a nice rifle. I’ll bet you didn’t expect all this when you started this page. If you did, more power to you !
To all in the service, THANK YOU !
Im picking up my Kel-Tec su16 model c next week. I love Kel Tec weapons. I have never had a single problem with my Kel Tec p11 9mm and i have often heard that the su 16 model rifles are extremely reliable and only encounter problems when firing exotic ammunition. ill let you know how my model c does in the field. i am excited to try out its ability to fire in the folded stock position. I like your rifle very much by the way :-)..im considering buying the compact forend but i may decide to keep the folding bi-pod instead.
ALSO id like to say to all who believe that Americans are a stupid and ignorant people as a whole, that it is ignorant in its self to judge an entire society by the actions of criminals and less than desirable citizens. owning a gun does not mean that you intend to commit any crime at all. i ,for example, love hunting. i use my rifles as tools for hunting. it is simply the way i was raised. does it make me a bad person because i was raised shooting guns regularly and hunting? and i’m sure that ill get many people talking about how hunting is wrong, but that is not the issues at hand. It isn’t right to attack other people for things that we cannot change. A lot of Americans grew up around guns and as a result are very comfortable around them. so is it really right to call us names for simply having the right to bear arms?..people will fight and people will kill no matter what the weapon at hand happens to be. and the fact is that many criminals in America have, and use, guns. so we, the average law abiding citizens, have the right to protect ourselves. again is that wrong?..in my opinion its not..and if you have a different opinion that’s fine..you have that right..but please don’t judge Americans by the select criminals who cause trouble for the average citizen. trust me..we don’t like them either. i mean no disrespect to anyone ..just trying to bring a different point of view into light
I am buying mine tomorrow- yours is very cool indeed.
Where did you get the locking pin upgrade? That looks like a must!!!
Thanks for being so patient with the idiots, morons, democrats, liberals, French, and other assorted criminals that tried to put you and all us Americans down – Ken
Forgot to ask- you have a 3-9x scope- hows that working for you? I was looking at a lower power (1.5 or 2x) for quicker CQB use – just wonderign and forgot to ask earlier- Thanks
The upgraded pin is a $2 hitch pin from Home Depot :)
The scope ended up being a piece of junk, fyi. A stablizing type rubber ring in the front fell out and the shock of shooting eventually shattered the front glass piece.
“Thanks for being so patient with the idiots, morons, democrats, liberals, French, and other assorted criminals that tried to put you and all us Americans down – Ken”
Yeah, thank God there are no Republican and/or conservative idiots, morons and criminals in the U.S.
I live in the US, Maine to be more specific. Everyone here has a gun. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a household that didn’t have at least one gun in it. Looking at the number of people killed in Maine each year by guns I have about a .0012% chance of being killed by someone with a gun between the beginning of 2008 and the start of 2009. Now lets look at England. The average citizen of england is at a .0063% chance of getting shot. And if i remember correctly England has banned almost all types of firearms? So, your more than 5 times as likely to get shot in a country which bans guns that a state that has some of the loosest gun control laws in the US
As mentioned I have two of these rifles (SU-16 CA) and I love them. Two for the price of an AR. For someone like me that doesn’t shoot much these days (4 or 5 times a year)these are nice. I think they’re nice for beginners as well.
One has the forend conversion like yours with a laser added as well as a triple rail mount added above the reciever with a six watt LED light and a scope. It also has CA legal phantom striker muzzle brake (not flash hider). Although it is still completely CA legal, I don’t take that one out much because of the atention it draws. The other one is completely “stock” (bad pun).
I should have mentioned all that earlier but I let myself get drawn into the political debate.
I see no problem in teaching my children self defense in hand to hand combat as well as with fire arms (4 girls and 1 boy). Safety first as always.
“Yeah, thank God there are no Republican and/or conservative idiots, morons and criminals in the U.S.”
Nope- no such animal- by the very description conservatives are superior to idiot liberals in every way- the moron dems/libs just don’t have the smarts to know it- you proved that Anon. Republicans such as Bush- different animal-
Just your girly way of not even being man enough to leave your name says a lot. My guess is that you are a make up wearing metro sexual with, let us say in polite company, problems in the pants. Let me guess, is your name Leslie, or Dale – or some other name that can go…”either way”…very telling of your personality.
Great gun Jeff. It’s the perfect size to take out for an afternoon of target punching. I like the .223 round too, its very affordable and has low recoil. Don’t let the libtards get under your skin about owning a nice gun like that. I read several comments that were pretty nasty. I think that many of those people have never touched or fired a gun. Guns are a safe as the person holding it.
Jeff Thx for posting shot one yesterday buying one tomorrow.
To all the anti-American readers remember this. Looking at History America has bailed one or more of your collective asses on (some on more than one occasion). 1) Sometimes for our “National interests” comes with being the #1 Nation on the planet. 2).Because simply we can (get over it), 3) most notably because the majority your shit ass little countries could be overrun by a sizable group of Army Ants.
America has it fair share of problems just like other countries crime not with standing. I own a gun because I love my family and will not be unprepared if someone unlawfully comes into my house looking to do ill will. What will you do throw your pet rock at them ? Great have fun watching as your wife/daughters get raped while you do nothing about it because you have a Smith & Wesson to your temple and not enough balls to do something about it. Grow up. Lastly it’s DAMN tough being #1 because you have to constantly worry about everyone else’s frigging problems.
Assuming I still have your 5th grade attention span, do a little research on Switzerland and it will teach you about guns in the hands of responsible individuals. Why is the crime rate so low? Because in Switzerland at one point, (not sure if it is still true)it is/was required that everyone spend sometime in the military, that everyone own a firearm, the same reason why the President of the Country is able to ride the train to work each day without a security force ??? BECAUSE EVERYONE OWNS A GUN ?? Nobody Dares.
My gun collection is too large to list, but I do have the SU-16CA. Haven’t got a chance to shoot it yet. Another good thing about it is that it takes AR-15 magazines. Seeing that I have that gun too, that is a big plus for me, especially because they are of the high capacity type.
One fact I never saw here is that the 2nd amendment was set in place so that the citizens of the U.S. would have the ability to fight off the government of our own country should it become oppressive/tyrannical. The founders of the constitution and the new government were very wary of the “monster” they were creating. The constitution does not give us citizens rights. It forbids the government from taking the natural, God-given rights away from us. In this case, the right to defend ourselves from aggression both foriegn and domestic… Fighting the government these days would be a losing battle.. Ask Randy Weaver’s family, and the slaughtered men, women and children of Waco, but the intent of the founding fathers is clear from reading their writings. Of course, no children in our schools these days would ever be taught these truths.. History has shown around the world that society can break down in the most tragic of ways. God forbid it could happen in the U.S. But should it occur, my family and I will be prepared to defend ourselves. My sons started shooting at 3 and 4 years of age and are very good at now 16 and 8 years old. They were raised knowing where the loaded guns were, just like they knew where the steak knives were on the kitchen counter along with every other dangerous tool around the house. And they were not to touch. Just like they were not to touch the glowing red coils on the kitchen stovetop! I could go on but will stop for now…
Love the pic…stumbled on the site cb/c I’m looking at purchasing this rifle.
I used to be anti-gun like a lot of the europeans and australians on this board. But then my mental faculties improved and I became more and more skeptical and started to question most of my beliefs. Turns out I really enjoy shooting sports and am quite good at it. Oh yeah, and I like the fact that I can level the playing field if someone decides to invade my home which happens frequently in all countries.
Since we’re generalizing, Australians and Euros aren’t the most skeptical group of people on the planet. They love their homeopathy and psychics and astrology and believe just about anything that makes them feel good. Since there’s nothing to feel good about when talking about self defense with deadly force, they rather cast derision on anyone who would not lay down and be a victim.
It’s not really their fault. For centuries in Europe, sticking your neck out and having your own thoughts meant that you got your head chopped off. This means that the meek, mindless and easily controlled were the ones who survived. Australia, well that’s just where all the dumb criminals who got caught and had nothing else to offer society got shipped.
America has a proud tradition of free thinkers and attracted the best of these people while the proles and criminals drudged out their meager existence in the shadows of their nobles.
FYI I know where Denmark and Great Britain are and I speak French and German fluently. I was born in West Germany while the people who would give up their guns were being protected from Communism by free men and the sons of the Greatest Generation who would not be conquered.
guns make war, people without guns can do nothing.. people with guns dangerous, people with no freinds, killers.. just like at your high school killings.. god damn u amaricans are stupid.. and thats a fact.. im from denmark.. where is denmark? without looking on a map?? tell me.
where is australia, wheres GB. what is GB?? U STUPID FUCKES!!
____________________________________________________
I must apologize for this ignorant Dane…sigh
I am from Denmark but live in Texas. You can’t take the values from Denmark and put them on the people in the US. The countries are founded on completely different values. Denmark is pretty much a socialist country and the people expect the government to care of their every need. Although I miss some stuff like free healthcare I still would rather live in the US. Just because you don’t agree with the way things are done, there is just no need to start talking sh*t when you have no idea what you are talking about!
Who cares where Denmark is if you are not Danish?
Do you know all the states in the US, or who the 18’Th president was?
Anyway…nice SU-16…im thinking of getting one myself. I own P3AT from Kel Tec and i love it :)
It always amazes me just how closed minded and intolerant all those open minded tolerant liberals are. Now that the libs pretty much control all arenas of the U.S. Gov. (with pres. elect obama waiting to take office) , I would guess that another Federal gun ban is just around the corner. The insanity that is liberalism will get even worse.
Already we have people who oppose the death penalty yet are pro abortion-figure that one out if you can.
The people that cry the most about protecting free speech are the first try to shut you up or get you kicked off the radio if you are conservative, or meerly disagree with thier views.
People holding “Peace” and “No-War” signs, hitting people with those signs that disagree with them at rallies.
They say they’re socially liberal but fiscally conservative.
(Impossible-you have to tax and spend to support all those social programs.)
People with “Peace and Tolerance” rainbow signs in thier window, screaming that they HATE you.
I’ve seen all of this first hand (I work in Berkeley).
These are just a few of the contradictions that are part of the make up of the insanity called liberalism. Just read some of the vehement comments on this page, especially from some of our peace loving euopean neighbors. They accuse U.S. citizens of being ignorant and violent at the same time they are calling us names and saying we deserve to die.
This kind of stuff used to really get me angry. Then one day I realized , that you can’t get mad at a dog for acting like a dog. Some of thier antics still get me angry once in a while, but I try not to let it control my actions.
They are insane, and that’s how they act.
The best we can do (without the possibility of euthanasia-for actual definition look it dictionary ), is to limit the damage they cause. After all they do serve a purpose – to remind the rest of us all that we are still sane.
I hope this helps. If it angers you , maybe you’re insane (liberal) and need to see a shrink. The only problem with that is, most of them are insane as well !
You need to snap out of your delusions. Be honest, and remember who ultimately saved your ancestors from the facists back in 1941 – the gun proficient Yanks of the United States (who, in many cases, had already learned how to shoot at home, before they enlisted). The fact is, America’s law-abiding gun culture is the civilian analogue of the American military culture that exists to further democratic governments around the world (i.e., the training starts at home). On the streets, the vast majority of Americans use firearms only as a last resort to defend themselves, and in war we Americans are there to defend all freedom-loving peoples. Go take some U.S. firearm training classes and find out for yourself.
The Brits whining about gun ownership- that’s too funny! You’d be speaking German if wasn’t for the barbaric Yanks! Ten of thousands Americans GAVE their personal firearms to the British people to arm themselves in anticipation of a German invasion. After the Yanks saved your pompous arses, your government promply rounded up the donated firearms and destroyed them!
Also- could someone please explain how there are ANY firearm deaths in a country where firearms are banned? On an island? Anyone? Cue the crickets….
The first thing early man learned was to kill. Kill to survive. Ever since then what any man prided himself on was the dexterity and perfection he put into his killing. Man used to practice with bone clubs. Man used to practice with sharpened blades. Man practiced with bows and arrows. Man practiced and practice still today with guns. Man practices with planes and bombs and so on. The ability and pride we hold in killing is ingrained into our very instincts and even deeper soul. Take away guns man will practice physical war. Man practices war in our games Ex wrestling, football, any sport has a link to warfare, be it speed and throwing deadly objects in track and field or evasion and tactical taking of enemy ground in soccer (football for my European friends). The greatest weapon of all is the human body. We will always compete with our weapon. Be it peaceful competition or in deadly warfare. I pray that it be peaceful play but, there is evil in the world and banning guns wont stop evil nor deter any crime or war from occurring. Only God can save this Earth. To quote US military terms… The world is and always will be S.N.A.F.U. (situation normal all fucked up… meaning the normal occurrence is screwed up.
Another side to this issue that I think some people forget is ,
the fathers of our country deliberately gave us the right to
own ARMS for a real reason. Not because they were gun crazy psychos. I am personally grateful to them that they had the foresight to do this. At the time, they were fighting a dictator from across the pond. They wanted to insure future generations safety from an oppressive government or dictator right here at home. Thank you for thinking of us and thank you for creating this – The Greatest Country in this not so perfect world.
I’m not saying the U.S. is perfect. We have our problems, but consider the alternatives. We have it pretty good here. Why do you think so many people from “other” countries are coming here – FREEDOM !
The reality is there will always be a certain percentage of dangerous bullies being born. Especially since now days, they are not deleted from the gene pool like in the past. NO, we just support them with our own hard earned tax dollars, this is something that I am quite sick of to tell you the truth.
UTOPIA is a wonderfull idea. But that’s all it will ever be.
It starts with little children taking toys from other weaker children. Do I think this is right ? Of course not ! But is it reality ? Yes ! Particularly considering the fact that now days parental authority is undermined by “liberal ethics” and way over the top political correctness.
The previous four posts got it right.
As always thank you for allowing me my two cents. I’ll climb down off my soap box now.
God Bless America and those that defend it !
P.S. Keep an eye out for ZOMBIES,they are out there !
Max Brooks was right.
Just had a thought for those of you that are not aware.
.223rem commercial ammo and 5.56nato military ammo are not always interchangable. 5.56nato chambered rifles and .223rem chambered rifles have slightly different chamber characteristics and different max pressure tolerance. SOME (not all) rifles are designed to use both types of ammo.
Both of my KEL-TEC SU-16CA rifles are marked with only 5.56mm on the right side of reciever, not .223rem ! I know that the SU-16 manual has (.223rem) after 5.56nato, but that does not necessarily mean .223rem is ok to use. The manual further states that “ammo type is on the reciever,do not use any other type.” As 5.56mm is the only type marked on the reciever,it is prudent that you contact KEL-TEC just to make sure, if you do not already know the facts. My advice,contact them anyway.
It is my understanding that you can use .223rem ammo in a 5.56nato chambered rifle but do not take my word for it! There may be accuracy issues due to the longer leade.
Using military 5.56nato ammo in a.223rem chambered rifle can lead to excesive stress and wear and may be unsafe,due to higher pressures of this military ammo.I have read that SAAMI recommends NOT to use 5.56nato in a.223rem rifle. Look for flattening or gas stains on primers as a sign of excessive pressure.
I have had people argue with me about the above info.
I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you find out for yourself, DO NOT rely on my word.
As stated before,there are rifles that are designed for both types of ammo. As ALWAYS , The best way to find out for sure is to CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER of the rifle in question,or a qualified gun smith.
I only brought this up to let people know that there is some confusion out there on this subject and that you should take personal responsibility to find out the facts for your own safety from qualified pros. which I AM NOT !!
If there are any others that can chime in on this , please do.
I have seen a lot of people get hurt over the last 28 years of my shooting experience due to improper reloading and improper use of ammo and fire arms.
Hi i lived in a bad part of miami for four years i have owned a firearm all my life. one night a man broke into my house. thirty minutes later the ambulane arrived for me. and a coroner for the illegal alien that brought a gun into my home. now tell me one good reson to outlaw firearms. if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. BRING ON THE HATE MAIL!!!!
Nice looking Kel-tec, I prefer the SU-16A, which i have. It has a Nikon 3-9, and the forarm upgrade, with a pistol grip on it. I intend to upgrade the butt-stock to a M-4 style when i get the money. To the US and gun haters, mind your own, Nobody told you, you had to visit this site. I have been alot of countries, including Iraq, and the UK, and I dont blame the entire country for the few idiots I have met, and seen on here. I own lots of guns, and I use them for protection and hunting, so say what you will, it wont change my mind.
I’ve got an SU-16C that’s been upgraded over the years with the tactical forend, pistol grip, an Ace folding telescoping stock and an EOTech sight. rnrn
Big Daddy, you can’t go wrong with an Eotech, they are the best sight out there. When I was in Iraq that was the sight we all used on our M-4’s. They cost a great bit of money, but if you can afford it, get one.
That’s a nice gun, man. I’ve been looking at hunting rifles and that one’s in my price range. How accurate is it?
And you European people need to chill a bit. If you don’t want to marvel at how awesome the US is, you can simply refrain from posting. Plus, you shouldn’t be picking fights with people who have the right to bear arms. I’d hate for you to have to put down your scone and get whatever weapons with which you Europeans murder each other to defend yourself.
That’s a nice gun, man. I’ve been looking at hunting rifles and that one’s in my price range. How accurate is it?rnrnAnd you European people need to chill a bit. If you don’t want to marvel at how awesome the US is, you can simply refrain from posting.
I just happened to come across this thread because I have recently purchased a Kel-Tec su 16b and noticed the picture of your gun with its scope. I will be adding optics after I become familiar with the gun. However, I found the discussion here about the so-called American “obsession” with guns to be interesting. I think Big Daddy has well-stated the issue. The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution is in place for a very specific purpose. Many Europeans and ill-educated Americans do not grasp this purpose. All it takes is a little historical research surrounding the discussions and debates concerning the ratification of the 2nd Amendment to come to a clear understanding of its purpose. The Framers of the Constitution did not write the 2nd Amendment to ensure that Americans have firearms with which to hunt or defend themselves. Yes, they serve these purposes. However, the 2nd Amendment has a more precise purpose; namely, to assure that the American citizenry can resist tyrannical government. The Framers, based upon their experience, believed that the greatest bulwark against political tyranny was an armed populace. Furthermore, they believed that all of the other enumerated rights of citizenship were ultimately dependent upon the 2nd Amendment. Without the 2nd Amendment, all other rights are “up for grabs.”
For many generations Americans adamantly did NOT want to be dependent upon a centralized and powerful government. They had resisted and wrested their freedoms from a centralized monarchical government. Therefore, the right to keep and bear arms is both a symbol and a substance for those Americans who consider personal liberty and civic responsibility to be the road to social happiness. Others, though, are willing to trade their liberties for Odysseus’ siren song of “security.” Consequently, they are mystified and even horrified by the notion that men like Jefferson and modern American individuals actually cherish their firearms.
Benjamin Franklin — “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
Here I was, doing some pre-purchase research on the SU-16 and I saw the anti-gun ramblings of “Liberal” and “European.”
OK guys, I’ll admit it, my guns (yes I have more than one) are for killing people. The fact is, some people need killing. No, I’m not talking about political leaders here, I’m talking about the lazy, undisciplined, and dangerous people we call violent criminals.
While YOU may live in a world where no human being has ever or will ever harm another, the rest of us have to live in a world were bad people can and will do us harm if they are given the opportunity.
“Call the police,” you say. Well, as a former law enforcement officer, I can tell you that there aren’t enough police to protect each and every citizen. It is more often the case that the police get there after a criminal has harmed an innocent person. We have a saying: “When SECONDS count, the police are only MINUTES away.”
“If you didn’t have so many guns out there, you wouldn’t have so much crime,” you say. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but we humans were doing just fine robbing and killing each other for a few thousand years before guns came along. That argument is like saying that you should ban matches to prevent fires.
Criminals will obtain the weapons they feel they need in order to victimize other people, laughing at restrictive gun (or for that matter, knife) laws as they do so. Criminals are also known as outlaws. This means they see themselves as living outside the law. How will any law result in their compliance?
Lastly, speaking for myself, I do not love my guns. I love the liberties they represent. The United States was founded during a revolution against a tyrannical government. This revolution occurred only after years of attempted diplomacy. It was armed citizens that started that revolution that won the rights that citizens of my country now enjoy. Rights that much blood has been spilled to defend. While I do not advocate or wish for another revolution, I do think it absolutely vital for the citizens of a constitutional republic to maintain the means to resist tyranny, should the government lose it’s legitimacy by violating the restraints placed on it by the constitution.
I refused to stand by and be victimized; by my government or by a common criminal. My personal security, the security of my family, and that of my fellow law-abiding citizens is my responsibility. Police, as brave gallant as I know they are, simply are not numerous enough to protect each and every citizen every minute of every day. If they were, we would live in a police state. In such a state, there would be no privately owned firearms and we might even be safer, but there would be no freedom. Certainly, there would not be forums such as this one. So I’ll keep my guns under my rights under the second amendment. I’ll keep them right next to my copy of the constitution.
I also stumbled upon this site researching the Kel Tec SU-16CA. I enjoyed reading the comments from both sides(except the profanity). I have a couple of hand guns that have seen very few rounds since I left college and it’s pistol team. I don’t have much time for shooting sports, it takes lots of practice to be very good.
I am shopping for a .223 auto loader, not because I particularly want to have one, rather I feel that it is my responsibility as an American citizen to have the tools on hand to defend my country and constitution if it is necessary.
Things have changed here in America in the last six months, with the economy and change of administration. Gun prices are way up, and both ammunition and guns, in many calibers, are scarce. Some of this is a reaction to uncertain economic times, and I believe some of it is from concern that we might be facing unconsitutional gun legislation.
I wish I had purchased an auto loading .223 when Jeff purchased his, a couple of years ago, when they were still bargains and relatively available. Now it looks like there is a 12 to 16 week leadtime to get one.
If anyone reading this has an idea where one might be available. I would appreciate a point in the right direction.
Combat-vet , Thank you for the info. Sorry I’ve been away for awhile. Had to do some intervention work on teen boy snooping around one of my daughters for the last year. Thank fully it all turned out ok with him DXed from our lives (peacefully of course).
I think I’ll save up for the EOTech. Now that state and FEDERAL taxes will be going up (Thank you obama bin laden),
it’ll probably take awhile.
MANY THANKS to you COMBAT-VET for your service to me ,my family, and the rest of this great nation !!!!!!!!!!
Daveforest and Ken Din , just wondering if you ever picked up your kel-tecs and how you liked ‘em.
One of the anonys caught my eye while scrolling down and I felt compelled to respond, although it was meant for jeff,
“yet i which i could really esteem your human conscience…and that you realized what your fighting for by defending free possession of guns.”
and
“its sad to say, but 90% of the population is brainwashed by the illusional world that the US leaders have created….”
I have to say that Thomisticguy was spot on, that without the 2nd Amendment, all other rights are “up for grabs.”
I would like to think that’s what we’re all fighting for by defending the right to bare arms.
As to the populace being brainwashed your completely confused. The brainwashing being done is by the libs and one world government types, trying to get everyone to beleive that simply talking and wishing will make the goblins go away.
From yet another anon,
“guns make war, people without guns can do nothing.. ”
This kind of ignorance doesn’t even deserve a proper response !
The follwing is a quote from sgtm8411,
“We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm”…. Im an active duty U.S. Marine and I guess im one of the afore mentioned “rough men”. I’ve been shooting guns my whole life and I’ve never killed anyone. Im a relatively peaceful person unprovoked. However, threaten my family and it doesnt matter if i have a gun or not cause’ your taking a dirt nap one way or the other.
Edmund Burke (a british statesmen) said “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”. The criminals will get guns illegaly but you will deny the “good men” the ability to protect their own civil liberties. The world is a violent place and as civilized as mankind may be, we are savages at heart with visceral instincts that date back to primordial man. Just because I am equipped to kill someone doesnt make me a “killer”. {for you liberals} your mother’s are “equipped” to be whores but are they ???
This is so simple yet so profound I felt it should be repeated. Thank you.
Paul Schaffner, Did you ever pick up that M1A ?
Have one – AWESOME ! It’s a good 7.62 reach and touch rifle.
I cannot believe the garbage that some people post… I am simply disgusted that someone would even take the time to post things that don’t make any sense – self righteous, know it all comments. I grew up in a Eastern European country for 17 years, and moved to the USA where I lived the next 17 years. All I can say is wow, what a difference!!! I own number of guns, and practice every day, and love my country (USA) which is the greatest country in the world!!! This is why everyone is moving here, you morons, rather than moving to Denmark, Eastern Europe, or Iran for that matter! I know what happens when the state owns all of the weapons, and know it from experience, first hand that is! This is where you are at the mercy of your government, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t… I know one thing, I would never allow someone else to run my life again, and I believe the only reason you bitch and post here is because of simple jelaousy, since you are still there, and can’t do whatever you wish! Freedom and Liberty is why United States is the #1 nation in this world, and everyone else strives to be like it. Haters will always be around, but whatever you say doesn’t matter, it’s just a waste of internet space, and you know it! Grow up, and buy a gun if you are man enough, defend your freedom and liberty, stand up for what you believe in. Otherwise just shut up and hide in your hole…
fear is the lack of knowledge, the less you know about guns the scarier they are. guns dont scare me, hell ive built a few, what scares me is how much better the criminals aim is than mine
Thanks Big Daddy, but I was just doing my job, which I love. sorry for taking so long to reply, I have been bussy. good luck getting your EOTech, I hope to get one soon also.
Why would ANY human being willingly give up any right to defend themselves? It is astounding. This all started when we gave up our power to women who now demand everything be done in the name of “safety” of children. Most woman will believe that the world can be made safe, and so push to have guns “banned”. So do men with feminine minds. Then never realize that the “banning” of guns simply stacks them in the hands of governments and governments INEVITABLY turn tyrannical. You trust only police with guns? Where do you think police officers come from? Special eggs? A “safe person” hatchery? No, the safest place to put power is NOT to concentrate it, but to distribute it. That is the safest world for our children Much safer than gas chambers, concentration camps, or being hacked to death with machetes like in Africa. There would be no Holocausts or Darfur’s in a world of freely armed civilians.
Actually im from Europe too,
And no im not surprised an American show his new “babe” on his Website.
Im not surprised because its more common there.
This doesnt mean Americans are Gun loving killers. They just have more freedom do Buy and own it, so more People actually do.
I had to say many about my “european buddies” but i deleted it.. May be to offensive….
In Fact if it would be alowed i would like to own such a nice peace above (but there are also other on my wishlist too lol)
I Agree that Guns where invented in first line for Shooting (mosty people) and or animals.
And ife youve got a good training you know that if youve to shoot youve normaly to kill too … thats a truth….
But means not everyone who owns or want to own a gun want to use it in that way.
Some of us never think about kiling someone (except for our own survival but right now i dont know if i could ever be in that situation for such desicion)
Most men are somewhere deep inside smallkids .. so me . We like the mechanik. we like the shooting. the power, the noise.. everything around. the technik. the theory… the customizing.
the last thing the most of us think is shoot someone with it. (Except our hunters ok they want some meet on the table hehe).
its naturally human. one part its fun with it another the old human hunting instincs.
Same kind of instincs let us make families and bring us every day to work…
And in FACT i BET everything in the RIGHT Situation 98% of all Adult Humas (lets say 18-60) are able and willing to kill some human beiing.
The Situation made strongly differ but ready isn nearly everyone. Its in our nature. Has nothing to do with americans. has nothing to do with gunowners.
And belvie it or not. A “good” gun owner not only knows as much as he can about his “toy”. he knows not only how to use it. he know also what it do.
how powerful and dangerous it is. he will consider minimum twice bovre he shoot (doenst matter on what or why).
He will also recive some trainig to handle it well.
So in a bad or dangerous situation someone like that is much better than a paniced “liberal” who never had a gun in his hands and rised other life too because he has no clue what to do and what is safe to do…
So ife youre a liberal and dont like guns . Ok dont used it.
You dont want to defend yourself becasuse you think violence is bad.. ok dont do it.
will you do for you children?
will you do for your wife?
do you really belive if we destroy all weapons noone get hurt again?
do you know that in my country most of all murdered people got NOT killed by an gun (there so unbeliveable many other ways and humans find ways if they have too)
uuuhh yes i forgot we give all important things to other hands. like police or military because they are the good they should wear guns to protect us ….
do you have a clue which guys you can find sometimes there????
oh no they should wear guns too ok agreed (some of them shouldnt really)
and who will protect us? noone?
oh man. its ok to be liberal (im in fact polical more liberal). its ok to be pacifist.
BUT GOD DAM BE A REALISTIC PACIFIST. Otherwise the world will never get better. Force wins thats a psysical law
PS: sorry for my english, isnt my native language… :-)
Combat Vet , Thanks for the luck. Still working on it . Had to get my DONT TREAD ON ME (rattlesnake) tattoo finished first.
Truer , while I agree with your overall message, I have to disagree with the part about women. My wife was hunting as a child long before I ever did. I actually know more men that favor gun bans than woman. Maybe it just depends on location.
A huge majority of the women I know here in CA support gun rights. Its the (un)- informed know it all males around here that would rather sit in the bathroom with the door locked talking to 911 while thier wives are getting raped instead of living up to thier marriage vows to protect thier loved ones.
And by the way, marriage is defined literally as a union of HUSBAND and WIFE ! NOT husband and husband, NOT wife and wife, Not human and dog,sheep,donkey or anything else you freaks want to have sex with !
Glad I could put that to rest for everyone. It need never be an issue that any of us should have to ever debate again.
Wow ! For a minute I kinda sounded like some lib senator telling everyone what was best for them at some town hall.
another european, got news for you, you can be a conservative and still be a pacifist. You don’t sound very liberal to me.
one of the requirements of being conservative is to be a realist. The so called LIBS try to protect only thier own freedoms that they intend we should have. CONSERVATIVES wish to protect all the FREEDOMS granted to US citizens by our CONSTITUTION ! Thats what it’s all about. Protecting our citizens,freedoms,borders,language and culture. All of this is pretty much diametrical to the so called liberal !
Welcome to the fold.
Getting back to the original topic here (KEL-TEC SU-16CA), I really like the fact that the gas chamber is over barrel (ala AK-47).
You can thoroughly strip and clean these rifles without having to worry about wear,bedding and accuracy issues as with some of our older underbarrel western military rifles.
Really I just think the overbarrel looks cooler.
The two I have are pretty damn accurate with peep hole sights at 100 yds. For the price you just cant beat these. Of course I picked mine up – wow has it been a few years already. Couldn’t tell you what they go for now . I’m sure they’ve gone up some by now. Who knows in this crazy place.
Nice SU-16CA. Personally I don’t know a whole lot about firearms. The only weapons I’ve fired were a 12 Gauge Shotgun (don’t remember the brand), and a .22.
Nice weapon though, maybe you’ll start a collection? Maybe you already have!
BTW: I honestly think that “Liberal” and “European” are just being trolls; based on their poor grammar, outlandish stereotypes, and inability to post a reasonable and coherent thought or idea.
Either that or they never graduated high school.
Hey, whats up JAY like the rifle. I have the same one, but with a whole lot more features on it. The only thing from the orig. su16 is the barrel, mag and firing assem (lower receiver). It looks almost identicle to a AR-15 now. I have pics if anyone wants to see it and what you can do to this rifle, including a pist grip assem, tele-scoping but stock and etc.
Jeff, finally got around to looking at your links (I know I’ve turned into such a lazy bastard. It’s the job and those kids, they get in the way of everything. Wait a minute, I’m not a liberal. I actually have a real job and family-not just pets. I actually enjoy my kids and supporting them. I’m just tired of supporting other peoples kids. Maybe I should get fired, then I could actually afford to put all MY OWN kids through college – on those tax paying people! No I couldn’t that, too many libs count on the taxes I pay. Conservatives work so the libs don’t have to! After all – basket weaving, painting murals and the recitation of poems in a quaint little ‘coffee-house’ is so much more important to the growth of our society and country than actual real work).
Back to the point. Your spot on as usual with the info! You know the saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Well – you can lead a lib to reality but they’ll only drink the cool aid.
Thank you for your contributions to the cause.
Well ‘Conservitive’, you know that if you give these libs an inch they’ll take 35 miles. Look at this buffoon of a president we have now. He quads. the national debt in 6 months then has the nerve to express that one way to clear up the debt that Bush left him is to cut the defense budget. These are the people that always cry about the gov. intruding too far into our lives, but they are the ones that make it so whenever they get more than an ounce of power !
‘Public option’ give me a break ! This has very little to do with health care and everything to do with more gov. control of our lives.
These people cried out that privacy was infringed upon by the gov. listening in on suspected terrorist phones; yet they want the gov. to have control over one of our most sacred things (our own health). They admittedly can’t even run the mail properly. Am I going mad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why does the gov. want GE to maintain all of our private medical records in one centralized gov. controlled location. Our Health records are none of their DAMN business !!!!!!!!!
It’s nice to hear from a fellow like the ‘European’ above JJ Slap Nuts. Sounds like he has actually lived on both sides of the pond for many years and knows what it’s like to live in a place with resticted freedoms.
Sorry for any mispells as I am a little riled at the moment.
They want to take our right to own fire-arms , then it will be much easier to control us and take away more of our rights by giving themselves (gov) more rights and or powers !
Keep buying those fire-arms and ammo. while we still have the right ! I live in CA so as you can see I take these ‘gun’ issues very seriously. We have enough ‘gun’ restrictions here already !
BLOW BY BLOW, just keep on BLOWING. It sounds as if that’s pretty much all you know.
So just keep on-a puffing. Just wipe your face when he’s done !
Sorry to the rest of you, that was just to easy.
this is only directed at the foulmouthed oz gidaymate but it may also apply to some of you yanks who write your own history, (I onl;y read posts as far down as the oz) so far, but let me ask a question, how many wars have the aussies won, on their own, none, or the yanks won on their own, apart from the war of independence, none.
I believe in the Americans right to bear arms, but my beliefs do not change the fact they have more gun crime than the uk, others have said it more eloquently than I, but guns dont kill people, people kill people, and its usually bad people killing other bad people, thankfully.
I have served in the British army and served along side Australians, NZ, US and Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian, Swiss and German, actually every country in europe now i think of it, but ive only listed the ones i have friends in, so in consequence i wont be slagging anyone off, ive put an and between US and Belgian, dont want anyone thinking i dont know my history sic
x2zero,
No disrespect intened as I respect ALMOST all who serve.
What wars in europe did the US start and couldn’t finish !
WW I : Germany
WW II : Nazis from Germany
korea : north koreans backed by china and ussr
viet nam : french colonial forces could not contain viets and pulled out (once again ussr and china decided to assist in the spread communism) .
Some of us do know a little about history, even military history .
I just wanted to pop my 2 cents in. First off nice rifle.
“Liberal”, I feel you have the right to your opinion. I do not agree with the hole president comment, but your opinion was bought and paid for in blood, and I will defend to the death your right to that opinion!
“European” You too have the right to your opinion, and if you were in the United States of America, I would defend to the death your right as well.
Guns are not just a cultural thing. Our fore fathers knew that once you take the power away from the people, then a dictator ship would soon ensue.
I am not proud of some of the thing this country has done, but there is no country that can say they don’t have a blemish in their history as well.
Our right to bear arms in this country and most of those who do so, do if fore life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We have taken up arms to wage wars that were not even ours. Young men and women of our country have shed blood in yours so you could have the right to your opinion and this is how you see us, as barbaric warmongers.
Well I will keep shooting my guns and loving it, and I will practices on cans to become a dead aim, and pray to God on high that I will never have to use my honed skill domestically or abroad. And I will pray that you will never need me nor my brothers and sisters to fight for you as I wish you peace.
NOW WERE’S THE KEL-TEC SU-16C CHAMBERED IN .223, I GOT ME SOME ZOMBIES TO KILL!
Ray , I can not believe that no one has responded to your comments.
That was one of the best paragraphs on this page.
I thank you even though this is not my page.
God knows I spout off enough here that everyone is probably sick of me by now,
I don’t blame them.
Wow I want that!
Looks like airsoft :)
Other way around, actually. Airsoft is made to look like this. ;D
It’s kind of scary how people from the US love their guns and rifles. I mean, what’s wrong with you? Do you go like “Hey dude, check out my brand new Blabla-techtech-number rifle! I bet I could snipe the president with this one..” and he’s all like “Awesome man! You’re like dangerous! Cool!”? If it wasn’t for actiongames I bet the whole fucking country was in its second or third civil war..
I know, jealousy is tough, but you can get one too someday, I promise.
Nice. I will be getting mine soon.
So im guessing its airsoft, nice, looks great dude, for now i got an un-modified M16A2, yes i plan to convert it into the canadian C-7.
Dont mind the “liberal” hes just a mis-informed 12 year old :)
Igor: since when is an airsoft rated “223 remmington”?
Wow…such misinformed retards. To think that they actually beleive that is a Airsoft. You can tell just by looking at it and the detail etc that it is not. Beautiful Gun by the way. And for the Liberal pansy who thinks that people buy guns just for killing people, you need to get a clue. People don’t just own guns to kill people. Many, in fact most have guns as a form of sport or for hunting as well as hobby. So please save us your liberal banter as you clearly have nothing intelligent to say or worth hearing.
By the way I own a M4 Airsoft, and while it looks real you can tell the difference between it and a real gun. :D
That is true, but my friends got a modified M4, with a metal body, the works, it weighs pretty much the same and looks real, infactt the only way you notice its airsoft is either by taking the mag out and obviously seeing, or cocking it back and seeing the Hop-up system hehe.
Ive seen just about every gun modified to an airsoft, so i only assumed this was.
Yes, it’s indeed sad how Americans still cling onto their weapons, and I surely didn’t expect to see this picture on this particular website. Liberal is totally right, and I don’t buy the sad excuse that guns are a cultural thing from the “new world” where you had to fight for your right (and kill almost all of the natives by doing so).
But you know what surprises me most? That someone who’s so proud of his killing tool (“oh no, guns are not only for killing people, we also shoot at empty cans…”) that he posts a picture of it, so proud of the craft and detail of his penis-enlargement, that he was unable to shoot a clear picture of it.
“I surely didn’t expect to see this picture on this particular website.”
Er…why not?
“I don’t buy the sad excuse that guns are a cultural thing”
I think you should do some research on that. In this area it may not be that you are stupid, but simply ignorant of the facts. Here, let me help you shed the shackles of being uninformed (and this was only a single google query away, shame on you):
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sports
- http://www.targetshootingnz.co.nz/ even the kiwi’s are gettin’ up to it
“where you had to fight for your right (and kill almost all of the natives by doing so).”
The insinuation that I had anything to do with the people who murdered and stole lands from the native americans is both insulting and idiotic. What, do you want to tell me I should get rid of my slaves, too? Wait, I know — perhaps you should go tell some random german that, “Hey, jews really aint so bad”.
“you know what surprises me most … he was unable to shoot a clear picture of it.”
So, wait … your objection to my owning a firearm is that the picture is out of focus? Or, was that just you running out of ways to inaccurately, poorly, and ignorantly insult anyone who owns a gun?
Besides which, you can check our one of the other several photos which didn’t come out so blurry if that’s really such a problem for you. I’ll admit, not the best snaps in the world here, but I wasn’t exactly going for “Product worth snaps”, my apologies for ruining your perceptions.
Owned.
Wow! I’d be tempted to laugh if it wasn’t all so serious.
I’m from Oz and we have tough gun laws which I agree with, however our natives (perhaps one of the oldest human civilizations on the planet) have always had a healthy interest in projectile weapons like the Woomera/spear and Boomerang. It’s not a moral/ethical crime to take pride in an engineering feat that has serious historical significance to our species. It’s possible to appreciate the dexterity challenge of 30meter matchbox shootout with the airgun and NOT feel the urge to harm someone with a bigger/better firearm.
For the tree hugging anti gun lobby I suggest you find a more pressing issue to back, like say… human population growth coz removing the guns won’t stop a determined human. Remember risk is one of the few things you can count on in our known world.
Jeff- total respect for the Bf2s website- hope EA are behind you (in a non sexual way). You should be on their executive team.
Whoa, nice. How much it costs?
Depends on where you get one. Anywhere from 500-750.
Just purchased my own su for 550.00 plus 40.00 for the forend that is on this weapon. I own several firearms for pleasure, and protetion. I work in a local Emergency Room as an MICN. For those who think that humans need guns to kill or maime one another have something coming to them. We are on top of the food chain for a reason. Projectiles or blade we humans seem to kill each other day in and day out. I love to snipe cans and paper, but don’t forget to knock on my door before entering my home for an ambulance will not pick you up the Coroner will. Northern California as well as the rest of the country have a terrible Meth problem and these people are not in their right minds. Hope to never be meet one in my home. By the way great looking Firearm.
guns make war, people without guns can do nothing.. people with guns dangerous, people with no freinds, killers.. just like at your high school killings.. god damn u amaricans are stupid.. and thats a fact.. im from denmark.. where is denmark? without looking on a map?? tell me.
where is australia, wheres GB. what is GB?? U STUPID FUCKES!!
Oh my lord in heavens! Thank you for opening my eyes. Your eloquent, insightful, and well thought out post has made me realize what a fool I have been!
Guns are the reason we have wars. Wars did not exist before guns[1], or gun powder even existed! Everyone got along just fine and the world was filled with happiness & sunshine forever and ever. If we could just get rid of guns, people would get along just fine[2]! Damn those Americans for inventing guns[3]!
Oh…
Wait…
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War
[2] http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm#weapon 2005: In more than 75% of violent crimes, no weapon was present.
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm#History
Sad how Americans have guns? Is it sad to have self defense? Is it sad to be able to stand your ground? Is it sad to love your country and be willing to defend it?
I wish I had a gun because I love my country. Go, GUNS!
Besides, it really sin’t the best idea to criticize somebody with a gun when you don’t have one. Think about it.
I respect people who have guns in their posession, though I would never buy one myself.
Just live the way you like it, either with a gun or without it.
I Don’t give a sh*t about ‘that stupid americans’ with all their guns…They say they do it for fun and for protection.
Well I understand that it can be fun to have a gun, I used to have an air rifle myself…but for protection? I dont see myself going to a shop with such a rifle in my hand…
Americans are SAD period!
You include owning guns in your bill of rights as if it is a matter of national identity – but in fact all you are doing is raping your own way of life!
The right to bear arms should not be at the price of other’s civil rights – which it inveriably always is.
Nobody American to this day is smart enough to know what the rest of the world has known for centuries.
I’d be really interested to hear your rational behind those statements.
How, exactly, is gun ownership tied to the raping of ones life? More importantly, what do you mean raping?
Also, what other civil rights have been impunged by the right to own firearms? I mean, I could just write that off with the standard “rights to own weapons are what freed America from british rule in the first place” argument, but I am interested in hearing your reasoning.
Finally, if you are as enlightened as you believe yourself to be (all the way over there in Australia) perhaps you would care to educate us instead of touting arrogance around the world under pseudo names and fake email addresses.
What it really comes down to is defending the lives of those you love. Not everyone has your best interest at hart in this world. I believe in the old saying “rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it”. We have this right in America. I’m sorry if you don’t.
I ran across this banter and found it interesting. I own enough guns to scare many of these foul mouthed people.
I can find Denmark on the map, I have traveled the world and am very happy to be home in the USA. I have no desire to leave again.
Your chances of being robbed and killed in London after dark are greater than most US cities. Your grandparents chances of being robbed and beaten at home by punks during broad daylight are greater in London than any US city. Get real, stop hating the guns and start hating the criminals.
By the way, I am better with a sword or knife than a handgun. Guns are illegal in Japan but use a gun, sword, or knife to kill someone and the result is the same. They hang you, shortly after your trial. Now that is a progressive legal system!
Compare my gun to a phallic symbol? Get over it, if you want to make that comparison use a knife or a sword. From what I hear some of your governments are planning on outlawing those too. The knives and swords that is.
Sorry no email address, I cannot do with a mailbox full of hate mail from people who swear and call names.
What are you going to shoot with that, tin cans?
Erm, did you not read the “223 remmington” part? While I don’t plan on hunting (don’t care too much to stalk, kill, transport, and clean an animal for food), a .223 round is quite capable of killing.
In fact, if you had checked your facts you would know that the entire U.S. military uses it as their standard issue ammunition. (.223 == 5.56 x 45 mm NATO)
Jeff,
I am thinking about a SU-16CA. Already have a 1903, Garand, M1A1, AR-15, K98, and Enfield. That will get them excited! I am getting out of match type shooting and looking for something to hunt cans with.
Want to leave it stock, no upgrades. Are they as nice as I am lead to believe? Thanks in advance for the info.
Jeff Ward
If you get a good one. People are very love/hate with kel-tec’s. The low price is a nice bargain, but it comes with some precautions — you may get a bad build. Now, I’m not talking “blow up in your face” bad, just “failure to eject” annoyances. For fun shoots it’s not a big deal, and if it’s a serious problems there are a number of simple steps to get it up to “AR” quality — or send it back to keltec and they’ll fix it up really nicely.
Firstly, respect to Jeff for a marvellous site in bf2s.com
And feel free to own as many guns as you like, I’m the other side of the pond and I’m guessing even your most high powered gun won’t reach that far. And yes, I’m scared of you even if you have just one gun. Aren’t you supposed to be scared of things that can kill you?
Statistically, with a little bit of googling, I find that in the US in 2004 10654 homicides were committed with guns, and the population was 293,638,158. This gives a ratio of one murder by gun for every 27561 people in the country. In the UK, there were 77 homicides committed with guns, and a population of 59,834,900. This gives a ratio of one to 777,076. Slightly better odds by by maths.
And SSGTWard, I don’t understand the point of “Your chances of being robbed and killed in London after dark are greater than most US cities”. Assuming New York is one of the few that are higher than London, thats like me saying “your chances of being robbed and killed in New York are higher than anywhere in the UK”. You admit that your worst case is worse than ours, so why should I feel in danger? But yes, I agree with you, hate the criminals.
Oh, and when was the last time somebody went on a killing spree in the UK, 1996, after which we banned handguns, and before that, 1987. Before Virginia Tech, when was the last spree in the US. Apparently it was February!
Each to his own, if your guns make you happy and you don’t use them to kill, I’m happy for you. Its not the sane, law-abiding gun owners that are going around murdering people. But their right to have them makes it much easier for those that do to get hold of them. Personally, I feel much safer this side of the Atlantic.
(Oh, and please note, no petty name calling, no foul mouth insults. Not everybody who dislikes guns is abusive.)
SafeDistanceAway, You also have a sense of humor, that is important. If we cannot laugh at ourselves we are taking ourselves too seriously.
I am sorry you are afraid of me that I own guns. If you had an opportunity to become familiar with guns or me you might change your mind but such is life. I have trained and served with some British Commandos. The only people who need to fear them are the bad guys. We were jealous back then of their FN/FALs when we had only M16’s. By the way did you know that your Honorable Prince Charles owns the largest gun collection in the world.
About the number of homicides with guns, what they do not tell you is that they also include criminals shot by police and homeowners protecting their family or property from armed robbers. If you are having homicides committed in Britain with guns it definitely means that the criminals do not play fair doesn’t it.
If you ever get to this side of the pond let me know and if you have the time I can introduce you to match shooting. Believe me, someone does not spend over a thousand dollars on a rifle to rob a liquor store. These rifles are finely tuned sporting arms.
damn .. need this weapon :D
Very nice site!!
@ European….. How dumb can u be and still have breath? Look at your own history wanker! How many Yanks, Aussies and Kiwi’s have died fighting and WINNING the war’s YOU started and COULDN’T FINISH! Dickhead must be French. Google French Military Victory’s. Guess what comes up….only French Military DEFEAT’S
That’s fuck’n right G’Day!
Also, respect to Jeff for a marvellous site in bf2s.com. Our boy’s in Oz all use your site and LOVE IT! Thx for all your hard work. Oh…and fuck you European!
Nah it’s not a airsoft it’s got 2 clips in the butt of the gun close to damage of a ak-101!
Hate and anger spewed in the name of peace scares me more than guns.
This quote is probably used constantly, but it still bears repeating.
“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes….Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
-Thomas Jefferson
After reading all the whiners comments from Europe and the US about guns I say.
Without guns we would still be British and if your in Europe-without America you would all be goose stepping and speaking well of Hitler-in German. You will be sued if you defend your property/home/family-that’s really neat and something to be proud of. Saying guns are responsible for murder is like saying cameras are responsible for pornography. We have around 200 million guns in the hands of the citizens here and most of those killed no one today. We assume responsibility for our own protection. You guys can wait for your law enforcement to arrive and save you or wait for the US to do so. Yes we are an imperfect country, no doubt, and we have stuck our noses into things that we should have stayed out of but there is no greater country anywhere nor has there ever been.
think there is another explanation for the number of homicides that occur in the US… Geography. I lived in Arizona for 15 years, and we had a high homicide rate, the biggest cause of that was drug trafficking. Because of the size of its boarders, and its proximity to the drug producing countries of the world, it is extremely difficult to stop these drug/arms dealers. In contrast look at Japan, Australia, and Britain, countries with low homicide rates, all are islands, all are across the ocean from the major drug producing nations, and because of those geological facts, they have a much easier time controlling what/who comes into the country. I now live in California, which has some of the tightes gun laws in the country. I just purchased a SU-16c, and already own a XD-40, I live in the city so the only place for me to shoot is at a range, that said, I enjoy the sport of it, and work hard to make sure that if I should need to use my weapon, that I am able to do so efficiently. It been said that no country on earth would be able to invade the united states because of the fact that private citizens are armed well enough to repel an invading army. we all know how easy it was for the mainland of Europe to be invaded in WW2. Its interesting that before hitler started rounding up people that he disarmed the public, ensuring that there would be no resistance.
People kill people, not guns. Ted Bundy sure as hell didn’t need a gun. Besides, id like to see one of you guys stick with your opinions when a 700 pound hog comes to say hello. And to go as far as to say that without guns, there would be no war? HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHA OHHHHHhhhhhh damn. that was funny. the fact is, we will always have war, yep. Thats right, take out all the guns in the world, we’ll use knives, swords, planes, bombs, sticks, rocks and whatever the hell we can get our hands on b/c people like you go around pissing other people off b/c your opinion is the only one thats right…uhhh yeaaaahhhh.
How can anyone accuse the Kel Tec as an airsoft gun?! I like your rifle, I want to get a ‘CA’ version, what kind of scope do you use?
I use a bushnell holosight now. This is pictured with a Barska 4-10x (I recall) — and I DO NOT recommend them, as mine fell apart in a few short months. Blegh.
Also, the model you’re looking at above IS the CA model. :)
Are you using the stock extractor? I’ve heard that some Kel-Tec’s don’t have the best extractor unit and many users are swapping them for Bushmaster’s AR-15 extractors. Are you in California? Because this seems to be one of the best .223 semi rifles you can get that actually has an ejectible magazine.
Yeah, I am. They’ve really improved them since the initial reported problems, honestly. I am in Cali. SF to be exact, so I’m quite familiar with gun law difficulties. The CA is probably one of, if not the, best rifle to get here.
For more, check out http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/ Pretty horrible forum software, but the people there know their guns.
To all the anti-firearm people:
–In 2006, 42,642 people died in traffic crashes, a drop of 868 deaths compared to 2005. –> http://www.nhtsa.gov/
–In 2004 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 29,569 gun deaths in the U.S. –> http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm
Funny how you see fit to ban something you don’t like, but conveniently ignore the most widely abused, neglected, and available weapon in the US – automobiles.
One thing i forgot — of the 29,569 gun-realted deaths, more than half (56%) were suicides, not “people using guns to kill other people”
It should also be noted that a person to kill him or herself, will find others means if a gun is not an option.
“We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm”…. Im an active duty U.S. Marine and I guess im one of the afore mentioned “rough men”. I’ve been shooting guns my whole life and I’ve never killed anyone. Im a relatively peaceful person unprovoked. However, threaten my family and it doesnt matter if i have a gun or not cause’ your taking a dirt nap one way or the other.
Edmund Burke (a british statesmen) said “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”. The criminals will get guns illegaly but you will deny the “good men” the ability to protect their own civil liberties. The world is a violent place and as civilized as mankind may be, we are savages at heart with visceral instincts that date back to primordial man. Just because I am equipped to kill someone doesnt make me a “killer”. {for you liberals} your mother’s are “equipped” to be whores but are they ???
I AGREE WITH THE EUROPEAN!!11
It seems to me that everyone who is “anti-American”, “I hate guns” and so on are all very angry. Maybe the reason you don’t have guns is because you would be the ones to misuse them. Everyone who posts on here in favor of gun freedom seems to try and give a rational argument without resorting to childish name-calling and ridiculous generalizations. I’ve traveled around the world. I’ve been to so many different places that don’t allow guns. And I have seen that street crime, violent crime, and all crime in general is NO DIFFERENT. If you are a criminal and you want to rob a bank, the fact that guns aren’t allowed in your country won’t stop you. Guns don’t create crime. Crime is everywhere. Crime can be caused by poverty, poor education, drugs, and other things, but simply being allowed to own a gun does not make you into a criminal or a warmonger. If you don’t like guns, that’s fine, don’t buy one. But at the very least, keep an open mind and don’t resort to petty name-calling.
Good god.
@ Simple, I have a healthy disdain for Americans in principle, most of whom show an incredibly ignorant and close-minded viewpoint of the world that in my experience appears to be entirely unique. Things like referring to Europe as a single country, not being able to locate any other country on the map, etc. are more obvious facets of an outlook that runs much deeper and is quite peturbing. However, there is a healthy majority that form the exception to this ‘rule’, and judging an entire nation or race as Anony-dane up there did is simply silly and quite honestly hypocritical. I would not make the mistake of thinking that all those with a dislike for you folks is stupid and/or angry–that’s a cheap shot and horrendously unfair if you consider your antics when vacationing outside of North America. (The English are also guilty of this, though less infamous for it–at least up to now).
I have no problem with people owning guns, but I do think it is a little perverse and incredibly misguided for your average guy to own a fully tac-ed out special forces issue assault rifle and still declare its ownership as ’self-defence’. I also believe America has an intrinsically violent and/or confontational element to its culture that makes gun ownership both unavoidable and also rather unwise. Coupled with the availability of firearms in your country, even the smallest of small-time criminals could be armed with a firearm, something which is much more unlikely in countries with strict gun laws (though I must say, gun crime is definitely on the rise here in the UK–something which appears to be the result of a perhaps romanticised cultural affinity with the gang element of the US).
@ SSGT: You say that it is more likely to find yourself a victim of violent crime in London than in most American cities. What you fail to realise is that London has a metropolitan population of ~14 million, which is around the same size as LA and larger than Chicago. I would like to know the compared crime statistics of London, Chicago and LA, taking into account London’s Urban area of 609 sq mi versus Chicago’s 2122.8 and LA’s 1667.9 sq mis. It is ridiculous to compare London to, say, Des Moines; that’s like saying it’s more likely to get shot in New York than it is in Grimsby–duh!
Jeff, you make a good point in that removing guns from society will not stop determined criminals from committing gun crimes. However, I feel it is somewhat short-sighted statement. Can you honestly say that spree killings such as the Columbine massacre were not at least partially helped along by the cheap and generally easy availability of guns in your country? Why is it that in Britain, such gun-related spree killings are almost unheard of since the crackdown after the Dunblane massacre? Putting a gun in easy reach of people of a less-than stable mindset is asking for trouble; impassioned arguments, minor grievances, they all become much more serious when a firearm is close at hand.
Like I said, I’ve got nothing against gun ownership as long as it is strictly controlled and monitored and, overall, appropriate–that means no M249 SAWs for your fat walty types with custom dogtags and aviator sunglasses. We might regret it should a zombie scourge overrun the earth, but I doubt it, eh?
hey bens, you can’t buy a tac-ed special forces issue assault rifle, you can only buy a semi-auto rifle.
Which it doesn’t make any difference other than the looks and reliability of any gun.
Just because in England you can’t buy scissors because it’s too dangerous, doesn’t mean that because America has legal gun ownership, everyone can buy a fully equipped machine gun.
And really people in london are so narrow minded and bad tempered that a police officer round each corner of the street is needed.
And to think that they don’t have access to guns.
As if your culture is better, you still have a freaking queen, and half of your population are assholes and cranky.And I really hate people’s habits in the UK. Just because US citizens are defensive it doesn’t mean they are violent. Compare your little country to the USA and say it that you have as much of a concentrated crime as USA has it scattered through it.
thats a cool looking gun, ive never seen one of those before. i will have ot look for more info and maybe get one if there not to much, but from looking at it, im thinking a price range of about $1.800 with the scope ?
and alcohol is sold on every corner and kills more people then guns ever will, so everyone take a pussy pill and tell us something we haven’t heard before. people are always going to use weapons in crime. i think i would rather get shot then stabbed…
You could buy 3 of them for 1,800, heh. The rifle is usually right about $600 a piece. New a little bit more, perhaps, used, definitely less.
Yeah, i just noticed that after i went looking heh.
hard to find that adxact style though when i was looking, pretty cool though. i just might get one. does it feel nice ? or does it feel kinda cheap ?
I can’t compare it to something like an AR-15 since I’ve only ever really shot that once. However, I’m quite satisfied with it. Once broken in, it was super reliable and I really enjoyed shooting it. Never felt like a toy.
The argument against gun ownership is as asinine as the debate against legalized marijuana. If you don’t stop to take into consideration the already legal ‘dangerous’ things in our society you lose the perspective to argue your position clearly.
The Journal of the American Medical Association, Jan. 19, 2005, Vol. 293, No. 3, p. 298, reported on the leading causes of death in the United States:
* Tobacco (435,000 deaths; 18.1% of total US deaths)
* Poor diet and physical inactivity (400,000 deaths; 16.6%)
* Alcohol consumption (85,000 deaths; 3.5%)
(Note: 16,653 deaths from alcohol-related vehicle crashes are included in both Alcohol consumption above and Motor vehicle crashes below.)
* Microbial agents (75,000)
* Toxic agents (55,000)
* Motor vehicle crashes (43,000)(see Note above)
* Incidents involving firearms (29,000)
* Sexual behaviors (STDs, hepatitis B and C, and cervical cancer) (20,000)
* Illicit use of drugs (17,000)
Looking at evidence that is readily available, you should be a lot more fearful about alcohol abuse, tobacco use, fatty foods, cars, chemistry in general and living a lazy lifestyle than with gun ownership.
I’d also like to say that as an American ‘liberal’ who is also a gun collector (and multi-lingual world traveler), we are not always so easy to categorize into the ’stupid American’ mold. I’m proud to be an American, but I’m not of a nationalist mentality like those who throw around generalities about an entire culture.
Gun collecting is no different than playing football, or collecting stamps. The only difference is in your perception of the activity…if you don’t understand it, it does not necessarily follow that it is a wrong thing.
By the way, great rifle! Where did you get it from? I’m in the Bay Area myself and would like to check one out firsthand…
Paul, I got it from a store on Mission st. Can’t recall the name though, srry. It’s the only gun store in SF though, lol.
I believe you can still rent the A version at Jackson Arms, slightly south of SF, for a moderate fee with some ammo. (While there, I also encourage you to shoot the .50 revolver and the UMC .45 rifle, both loads of fun.)
The price for the CA version hovers around 600 usually.
Paul, you can get that rifle at any local gun shop. Thay are very popular. You can also order online. Check out budsgunshop.com. They have the best deals in the U.S. as far as I can tell.
And for the folks who don’t understand why some Americans own guns; I can only speak for myself because America is composed of a huge diversity of people, cultures, and opinions, when I say: I own guns because responsible recreational shooting is fun!
Paul, I just got me my own SU16-C.
So far It is more value than I expected for the price..
I love the way the Forend Conversion Kit looks in your SU16-CA where did you get it?, If I may..
Good one Jon, hope you have a great shooting with it!
I’m going to the same shop on Mission St. this Saturday, and Jackson Range later to see if I can fire one firsthand. Most probably I’ll end up ordering one this weekend!
And Jon, I e-mailed Kel-Tec about the compact forend (which dissapeared off their website) and haven’t had a response yet…
Protect your freedom, The 2nd Ammend, Guarantees it…..
Nice CA SU-15.
;)
The second amendment protects our right to own toys. Silly Europeans, half of our country qualifies as a rifle range. Come on down and have some fun. Quit blithering about society and all that crap. Has nothing to do with fun!
Bought my SU-16CA last Saturday…waiting to pick it up Tuesday…
I got a response from Kel-Tec, the compact fore end can be purchased by calling them direct, but for some reason they took it off their store online.
I disagree with you Joe, blithering can be a whole passel o’ fun.
Great comments from SSGTWard and many others!
What a great comment board! It shows a great variety of people and opinions. And isn’t that the great freedom that guns (among many other variety of weapons) have given to us Americans and non-Americans alike and many of those liberals and anti-gun posters on this site as well. If not for our guns, we very likely would all be saying the same opinion due to government laws that would make us all believe the same thing and act the same way. With that stated, I’d also like to say that I appreciate many of the opinions of those anti-gun individuals on this site. These comments always help me prepare to better understand your opinions which are important for an intelligent conversation. You have your right to your opinion just as I have to mine. But don’t be degrading on a site where you have no business talking. I don’t go to your anti-gun site and post radical and degrading comments about you. So respect our space as well.
What great quotes I will take from this site. A funny one is the one about ‘equipment’ by sgtm8411 :-) Although it may not be the most eloquently stated quote here, but is most likely the most clear, consice, and easy to understand. That was priceless. And let me add a thank you to sgtm8411 for your service to this country! Semper Fi!!
There are just a few comments that I’d like to point out. First of all since it has not been stated here yet (unless I missed it), guns were originally created to aid in killing. I want to be point blank about that. I’m sure the liberals will have fun with that one. Of course gun powder was created initially for war and amusement alike. I want those facts stated up front. I am a proud gun owner and have plenty of them ranging from early 1800 American and English models to modern day assault rifles. So don’t think I’m one of those anti-gunners, but part of a clear understanding of where we are today and where we will be tomorrow is to understand where we were yesterday. Being honest, open, and accepting of the past is crucial for progress. So let the aforementioned statements not be forgotten as they are facts.
HOWEVER, let it also not be forgotten that for many years, guns have been used for other non-war related activities including: recreational activities, Olympic Games (including all countries that have commented in this board), and harvesting food among many others not here mentioned. Additionally, as previously stated when used for wartime, these weapons have afforded us great freedoms that we would otherwise potentially not enjoy.
As has been mentioned many times in this comment board, there are many other forms of weapons that kill many more people every year. Why do these go unnoticed? Politics of course. Individuals will skew, hide, distort, and attempt to destroy any evidence that opposes their desired outcome. This is obvious signs of denial and self-serving intentions. For if facts point to another conclusion then they are in denial about it and/or are obviously lying to attempt to have their opinions accepted. Both side to any debate need to be open and honest. It would be nice if everyone in the world had good intensions in mind at all times. If this was the case, there would be no need to hide and distort the truth; rather they would seek it out because they would want to know the facts so that good could be done. But we don’t live there and most likely never will.
With that said, the fact of today is that others would have their beliefs, ideas, opinions, and ways of life forced upon you if they had their way. Sounds strangely like former leaders around the world… Hitler and Stalin come to mind. That is a disgrace to all those to have died to defend freedom. Freedom is our choice. Freedom is our ability to choose our own decisions and shape our own futures as much as we can. I have no problem if my neighbor hates guns and wants nothing to do with them. That is his/her right and I would defend it just as I would defend my own opinion. However, I will not force him/her to own, carry, shoot, and use a gun. Why should they be allowed to force their ways upon me? They shouldn’t!! Plain and simple!! Freedom in this instance would be for both to live their lives as they see fit. Let the other have their way and live their own life.
Furthermore, to those who here in this comment board have made stereotypical statements, shame on you! I would never make a statement towards an entire people based on the comments and opinions of a few. I’m not perfect and would never claim to be, however I try to base my opinions of an individual solely on their conduct. Just because I may not be as educated in geography as you are, doesn’t mean you are better than me or that I am a bad person. I’ll bet money I can explain the inner working of a computer, software, gun, or a complex mathematically algorithm based on your historical mathematicians better than you can but you know what? That makes me no better of a person and I have no right to criticize you for your ignorance. Ignorance is not a bad thing; it is simply the case of not having the same experiences as you. Nothing more! Our experiences mold us into who we are and what we know. We all would be better off if we were open minded and accepted the fact that we can all learn something new from each other. However if individuals presents themselves as violent and uneducated as is the case with many posting on this board, they have most likely not yet reached the level of understanding for basic conversation and enlightenment. Based on that, there are several individuals in this comment board that I see no purpose in addressing due to the way that you present yourself.
In closing let me say that I am a big fan of Kel-Tec. I have their Sub9. I love to shoot it and would love to get my hands on one of these as well. But more importantly to all that read this posting, please always try to see the other’s point of view. If you can understand their point of view, then it should be very easy for you to show them your point of view. Furthermore, if you see their point of view and allow them to explain their point of view first, then you will have an advantage as you will then be the only one that now knows both points of view. You can use that to articulate your objection/agreement with their points. There is nothing wrong with getting mad and even having to dismiss yourself from a conversation until a further time, that is simply the result of a strong belief in one’s opinion which is of course a good thing. But please attempt to re-enter the conversation yet again to encourage a more intelligent perspective on the subject. I will get mad if you tell me that I should not be allowed to have a gun, but I will listen to your opinion. I will listen so that I may better understand your perspective. I may even agree with if I view the issue from your perspective with your experiences in mind, however please also understand and respect my opinion and perspective. We do not have to agree on anything, we need only be accepting and understanding of each other’s opinions. Don’t beat your head against a wall to please your opponent. If no agreement can be made, simply agree to disagree and live with it. It is stupid and primitive people that rise up in violence or with legislature to oppress those who disagree with their opinion. They are the ones that fight for promotion of enslaving people. For slavery is simply being under the control or direct influence of another person and plainly put, not being able to do as you wish. Intelligent and good willed people can disagree on everything but still live side by side. They are the ones that would fight and live for freedom. This idea is what America fought for and won in our fight for independence. Freedom is a right that all mankind should be able to enjoy. I fear the day when we need to reference a man made law book to see what we can and cannot do. Furthermore I fear the day when a person or people try to tell me what I can and cannot do for that is the day that I will surely die fighting for OUR Freedom!!
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http://www.armedamerica.com
http://www.armedamerica.org/ is what I meant to say. Oops!
Labels are problematic, but in the mainstream sense I am definitely a “Liberal.” But I own several firearms, some 100+ year old ones that I inherited and occasionally take out to shoot, and a nice new Springfield XD40 for home defense. A former instructor of mine once said that a lot of women in particular are anti-gun — until someone starts stalking them. Then they find out that the police are not available 24 hrs a day 7 days a week as a personal protection service, and they have to provide their own security. The firearm is certainly not the entirety of a safety plan, but it does enable a person to protect her- or himself against a physically more powerful attacker, if the would-be victim has taken the time to get decent training and practice with the gun.
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
That’s what changed me from a liberal who was against guns (and, to be honest, afraid of them to the point of irrationality) to a liberal who owns, uses, trains with, and likes guns. The more I learn about the world, the more “liberal” I get; the more I learn about people, society, and crime, the more I’m glad I can and do own a modern semiautomatic firearm.
I only wish that I could get a concealed carry permit here in California. Better to have it and not need it….
-Liberal in Los Angeles
p.s. I have had my eye on the SU-16 for a while, too. I would like to get either that, a Ruger Ranch Rifle in .223, or a California-compliant AR15 (probably the best, albeit the costliest, of the three).
p.p.s. Moi, j’ai aussi voyagé àbeaucoup de pays en Europe et Grande Bretagne. J’aime ces pays et leurs peuples…mais je suis heureux d’avoir le droit de posseder des armes de feu ici aux Etats Unis.
I agree with you completely LiberalAndArmed. The only regret I have about buying a gun is that I have started an addiction that can’t be cured. After shooting the SU-16 I now have my eye on buying a Springfield M1A with the JAE 100 stock before it is added as banned on the updated California list. After that a Remington 700, then a Tikka T3 tactical, then a…
…all those guns and I’m still ‘liberal’. Go figure.
“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it.” – Thomas Jefferson
You’ll note, I’ve pretty much picked out my next “toy” :)
Better get it fast, I’m sure all .50’s are going to be on the chopping block in CA soon. After all, a lot of liquor stores are robbed with over 40″ long 25lb. single shot rifles with ammo at $5 per. I know I keep one in my coat all the time.
Nice by the way :)
Personally I do shoot, only as a sport though (clay pigeon shooting) and no I’m not from the US or living in the US, I’m in the UK.
In the grand scheme of things, there’s nothing wrong with guns – without them the world wouldn’t be where it is now…and no it wouldn’t necessarily be a better place, just think about.
However, a gun is a serious object and should be shown respect. Personally I feel that flaunting ownership of something like this is slightly childish. I don’t feel the need to show everyone my 12bore, why would I, unless I felt the need to boost my esteem/feel ‘important’ from the comments of others.
Sorry Jeff, I agree that there’s nothing wrong with guns, but there is a problem with the people that show off and brag about owning one.
Rich, do you you feel the same way about cars? Collectibles? Art?
I totally disagree with your comment, there’s nothing wrong with showing off your interests. It would be childish if he was hip-shooting his rifle or acting irresponsible with it…but this is just a picture of a rifle.
Rich, I agree with Paul on this one. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to show what you have. As with any hobby that includes collecting things, it is great to show what you have acquired to your follow collectors. Why do you think museums that show unique collections of anything get such great numbers.
As far as acting irresponsibly as Paul pointed out, I would agree, however, I might say that hip-shooting is actually an art. I would imagine that Rich may know something about that from the clay pigeon ‘world’. Hip shooting with shotguns, and yes with rifles, is a talent all it’s own. With shotguns most anyone can quickly learn, but to hip shot with rifle, particularly at moving targets such as clay pigeons has only been mastered by a few (trust me they’re there, I’ll leave the research to you as I can’t recall the names from the top of my head). Furthermore, another hobby of shooting particularly among veterans is tactical shooting which to someone unfamiliar with the sport might consider irresponsible shooting as this often includes shooting with others in front of the muzzle… an absolute NO NO to any non-trained individual. BE ASSURED I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS WITHOUT EXTENSIVE AND PROFESSIONAL TRAINING. I don’t want to be mis-quoted on that last part, but once again, it is done with much enjoyment, safety, and professionalism every day. If you are into tactical and combat type situations, I might recommend getting training on this and trying it for yourself, BUT DO GET PROFESSIONAL TRAINING FIRST.
Well to get back from my tangent, Paul you are right, there’s nothing wrong with showing a new toy to follow collectors. This will usually include bragging, and hey, what’s wrong with that? Nothing in my book. That’s what keeps up going on looking for the next best thing :-)
Best wishing to all and I hope everyone had a very Merry CHRISTmas and very Happy New Year!!
wow just wow.. SSGTWard.. so very well said
JM thanks for bf2s
i dare not say anymore
are you people kidding me….
most firearm murders are commited with an UNREGESTERED FIREARM.
this means the majority of legal firearm owners are not going out and killing people with there firearm…
you might of had a better argument if you argued about the right to own a assualt rifle ( this is a gun made to kill a human being) but
“In fact, Switzerland has more firepower per person than any country in the world, and an average Swiss citizen has more firepower than available to combat troops in many armies. Yet, Switzerland is one of the safest places on the planet, a country where crime is virtually non-existent.”
hmmmm, this must mean GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE,PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE
oh yeah and thats a nice looking kel-tec.
i was thinking about purchasing one but when i held it. it seemed to light.does the forearm and loaded mags in the stock make the su feel more like a firearm and less like a airsoft rifle? ( im not meaning to rag on the su or anthing just would like to know.)
Hay I just wanted to say that as a gun collector for the past 18 years I have had many a friend that was an “ANTI-GUN” person. I have the Same gun you do and it has been My joy to teach the art of shooting to many of my friends that would otherwise have never had the opportunity if it were not for our rights and my collection. It has also been a great joy to talk 3 of my anti-gun friends at different times into coming out to shoot with me, just so they could see first hand how Evil it is. so far All three of them have come to understand at that point that it is a great hobby for the responsible person. There past was filled with people around them filling there brain with the fact that Guns are bad and used to kill people, when seen for themselves that the hobby of guns is a great family oriented sport they now enjoy one of the country’s greatest sports. I too live in California and enjoy shooting my Kel-Tec 4 of my friends have bought them since i first got mine. When using it to teach new shooters I have a simions 3×9 and can ring the 300 yard bell each time, at home or out with my gun friends i have a “HAKKO Blue ring” tac sight on it. I love the gun and yes used it did run about $400.00 but thats not bad in CA for a great shooting, Legal, Semi, rifle. Last of all I feel Very sorry for any of you that life in a place that does not allow you the freedom to enjoy such a great Hobby and Sport, If you ever come to Fresno I would be glad to take you out so you can try for yourself just what it is that we all love so much, Shooting and Gun collecting.
Random thoughts…..
* I check my gun case every day and none of them have gone out and killed anybody yet.
IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE THEN :
* Pencils make mistakes, and Forks made Rosie fat !!
Fact:
Ted Kennedys car has killed more people than my guns.
Well for all u dubbahs who still think its airsoft, hopefully not many, there is now way in hell it could be airsoft. The foregrip is entirely too small to fit any good size battery in, and if you note that the stock is hollowed out to fit two extra .223 mags, there is no way it could go there.
I honestly dont care if you abhor guns. Just dont tell me or anyone in a place where it is about a gun(s). Go to some anti gun forum and whine about it there. The the second amendment of the US Constitution states that all US citizens have the right to bare arms. You dont like that… well sucks for you. There’s nothing that can be done about it unles the second amendment is repealed. Which it wont in our lifetime at least. So suck it up. If you are that paranoid of guns go to a country that bans them, I for one am quite content with people owning guns. Sure theres that .01% of gun owners who shouldent own them but hey, you cant control everything.
I think this rifle is rather nice. It combines the perks of both scout rifles and assault rifles.
lol – “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!”
Don’t dis Jeff, he’s got himself a hobby…..thats all! It is a great sport which I wish was allowed in the UK.
Due to an incident in Dunblane (Scotland, EU), hand guns and rifles have been banned for years now. To be honest I believe this is the best thing to happen. However, I wish I grew up with a respect of rifle / pistol shooting, with out the fear of getting arrested.
So now the law has changed as of October 2007. You can only buy an AEG that is a replica, as long as you are a registered skirmisher! That sux ass! I have luckily bought myself an AK-47 Spetsnaz compound AEG. This is a great lil’ plinker. Which means I have the ability of shooting things without the risk of killing someone. I like that alot.
I personally don’t like “Live” guns, but to dis them is not my style. I would change my mind if I was in a gun club. Recently I have joined a BSAC SCUBA club, and went diving for the first time. I was sooooo nervous, but I have now got the bug, and I’m learning the ropes. Guns should only be for the Army and Hobbies. Which, although I don’t know Jeff, I’m sure has a great respect for the “GUN”.
…oh….and you have a nice shooter there!
Regards,
Owen Johnson (UK)
I happen to own guns. I also happen to be a vegetarian (maybe the only vegetarian member of the NRA, hehe). I assure you, I’m well read, far from ignorant, and pretty progressive in a libertarian kind of way.
Here’s the deal, let’s do some logic:
Bad people exist(yeah, I know, it’s sad, I wish it wasn’t like that, but that’s how it is. You feel like being a victim, don’t drag me along with you).
In order for innocent law abiding citizens to defend themselves from said bad people who invariably break laws and societal norms to get what they want, they must be able to equalize the status quo. In other words, when I’m 140 pounds, and 5′10, versus a 200 pound guy, I’m toast, and even my martial arts background isn’t going to help much. If he has a knife, even worse. If he has a gun, the worst.
But: what if I had a gun. He wouldn’t dare come at me if I had one. I, the innocent, am perserved. If he had a gun/knife and I had no gun, I’d be dead. If I had a gun, and he had a gun/knife, at least it equals out the playing field. Imagine if you’re a woman. Even better, a woman can defend herself without needing extensive training or the risk of getting injured at a close distance. That helps avoid rape and death. Wonderful.
To you Europeans, I sympathize, nay, empathize with you. When a government becomes so totalitarian that it prevents people from defending themselves, their family, and their property, I cannot help but feel saddened and enraged on your behalf. You, the innocents, should not have to be victims. If you don’t want to own guns, that is fine, but who are you to tell me that I cannot defend myself either!
You are so correct. However, the ability of owning a gun was still “iffy” at the best of times. When I said “Guns don’t kill people, people kill people!†I believe we both agree that this is true. With unfortunate events such as Dunblane, this has made people afraid of being in the vicinity of guns. Yeah yeah yeah they have the ability of killing people, so what? So does a brick or a fountain pen…you just need to use it as a tool.
So to recap, people are the killers not the weapon. If you had a hobby like collecting swords, which is still legal in the UK (well for now anywho), then this is just the same. What is to stop a kid from taking one to school, and running people through, instead of shooting them???
How ever, there is one exception to the rule…(like always)…You can own a shotgun and defend your livestock from attackers, in the UK. Such as dogs or monsters…or ravenous Iraqi’s and Afghans…So really this is a tool for the employee to save his or hers job.
It seems to me that not all Brits and Aussies are happy with the fact that their government has complete control over their lives. Yes some Americans maybe be short sited and narrow minded, but not all. I love my country for the fact that I have the right to make my own choices and the fact the I am the one responsible for those very same choices. “Let Freedom Ring”, I live by that quote, I am sorry most Europeans don’t have the ability to and the youth of those countries never will. But they have no one to blame but themselves…
Those who are sorry that they have lost their rights… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkS2BRoCd2I
Very nice kel-tec btw, I have a PF-9 for carrying and am spending my tax rebate on a su-16ca…woohoo! :)
Hey guys, I have two SU-16CAs. They are great lightweight rifles from target shooting to home defense and totally legal in CA. Sometimes They have a fail to feed or fail to eject problem with factory extractor. This is Usually due to cheap ammo. You can get after market extractors that are relatively inexpensive- ($20 to $30). I change the extractors in both rifles in less than 3 minutes. Very low maintenance and very easy to strip down.
Oh,and don’t let the anti gun losers get you down. It’s still a free country here, at least for now!
To anonymous from denmark all of you over there across the pond would still have a nazi flag over all of your dwellings if it was not for all of us so called “stupid fucks” from America saving your sorry a- well you can figure it out, that if the Muslims haven’t totally taken over europe by now !
billy m , if you’ve ever carried a rifle and 60 pounds of extra gear in 100+ temps. you’d greatly appreciate how lightweight these rifles are. The loaded mags in the stock add almost no or very little difference in weight. Remember they are only 10 round mags not 30s.
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one in CA that appreciates our freedoms and the people who have given those freedoms to us.
So I’m a year plus late on the gun debate “liberal” and the European fellow started but I always chuckle when liberals cast off any gun-wielding Americans as barbaric or suffering from penis envy. I am a liberal and plan to purchase this rifle in a near identical configuration. I think as an open-minded liberal it is foolish to write off any practice without understanding it. Guns are certainly a cultural thing in America, and yes we pay the price annually for it in national murder rates. With that said, Americans have opted to retain their rights to possess firearms. We are all aware of the trade offs, please do not assume everyone who owns a gun wants to kill or is compensating for lack of manhood. Shooting rifles in a non-lethal manner is certainly a sport, as much as archery or horseshoes for that matter- same deal, land a projectile in or near a target. It’s nothing new, and it is not barbaric.
Plus, if the gun looks really cool I don’t think I see a problem with that either.
I like the design of the SU-16 but for that price I go with an AR tho. I might add it to my collection one of these days.
Jdun: from what I understand, an AR is quite a bit more expensive than the SU16. You can pretty commonly find the SU for 4-500$ compared to starting at about double for AR’s.
There are pros/cons to each, but based on price alone, you get a .223 for half the price.
AR’s are much more expensive, even used it’s hard to find a decent one for less than $1000. Also, it’s somewhat like comparing a stock Toyota Corolla to a (insert mid-level sports car here).
I have to say that my SU-16 was a great rifle to learn on. The trigger is stiff, the build quality is OK at best, but it is reliable and chews through any ammo. I’ve since moved up to a Sako TRG-22, and it’s a world of difference…but I learned a LOT of valuable shooting skills thanks to the ‘rougher’ nature of the SU-16. A great learning rifle, and it also doubles as my back-up zombie killer.
How much was your break kit plus labor
wow…this thread started in Dec 2006 and lasted for a year and a half…as a gun lover, i wanted to read all the comments and post my unbiased opinion but sadly, i have an exam coming up, i’ll join the discussion (and laughing my a$$ off at ignorant comments) once i’m free
jeff, total respect for your site (bf2s), i honestly agree with those saying you should be part of the EA team
yet i which i could really esteem your human conscience…and that you realized what your fighting for by defending free possession of guns.
i’ve lived in the US for a number of years, now im back in europe, and i have to say, americans are a great people, but its a shame that they take a look at the world and remain with their antique ideas.
its sad to say, but 90% of the population is brainwashed by the illusional world that the US leaders have created….
I just had to post a comment to all those individuals criticizing private citizens owning firearms. A firearm by itself is not dangerous, a firearm in the hands of an untrained and irresponsible individual is dangerous. Firearms are the rights of all americans, and they are a part of our identity. Americans have served in every major war and have been the reason why German is not a world language, I think it hypocritical to criticize a people that you relied on so heavily to defend your own people. No country in the world would dare invade the U.S.A, because the american people and their firearms would be here to stand up for themselves where other country rely on us to defend them. That is the reason behind the 2nd Amemdment, we as a people are the militia, a citizen army, greater than any professional army in the world. We have only used weapons as a nation to defend ourselves and have defended others who could nor defend themselves. It is unfair to catorgerize all gunowners as criminals. The greatest wars of all time were created by Europeans and ended by Americans. War was here before guns, and it will be here after them. Europeans shipped criminals to the America’s, Australia, and New Zealand as solutions to their own criminal overload. I think there is a big problem with Europeans differing blame and chastisement on others. Napolean sold us land to settle an outstanding national debt that crippled the French people. Stop attacking us for enjoying our rights, rights that we have earned through our blood for your wars.
Hey Rob, you have just put into words , what I think many of us have felt at one time or another. Your comment about Americans having to end the Great Wars that the Europeans started hit right to the heart of the matter. Comments from others about gun use by criminals vs Responsible gun owners are true as well. Let’s start by “really punishing” those who mis-use fire arms instead of blaming guns. I’ve been around guns all my life from a very young age and I have to say that; through the course of my life I have never seen a fire-arm escape from a safe or gun cabinet-(old days), load itself and then leave its place of residence, take aim at some one and then discharge itself!!
More U.S. citizens were killed here in the States last year by illegal aliens than in the war in Iraq up to that point. Hey here’s an idea , let’s BAN THEM !
Anyhow, JM that’s a nice 16 !
I wish I could say I love you all but what the hell-I’ll be honest, I love some of you and have pitty or dispise the rest !
PEACE-to those of you that don’t take it for granted !
Samuel Colt did more for women’s rights than any other man who ever lived. Sorry that the liberals and culturally deprived descendants of serfs have been slamming this excellent page, but they’ll never grow up enough to deal with the fact that wishing won’t make the goblins change.
Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away! ;-)
Neville, please remember that there are liberals that do own and support gun ownership…
fuck you all man that a fake sniper i saw a real 1 and its more than that u fucking noobs i going to kill u all aahahahahah
lanfhe piakena lutaremia punamery
fuck you all motherfucer go fuck youre mother
ahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
sorry joke hahahahahahaha
got u all aahahahha
hi all back again
but sorry for the last post
its a joke ahaha
:P:P
but thats not a real sniper
trust me ok
bye
Safety.. Safety… Safety… I heard a lot of arguments about irresponsible individuals hurting or killing people with their guns. However, education starts at home even with the kiddies. I think that adults need to be more responsible and also educate their children about the dangers of guns and actually take their kids to a shooting range and show the kids what guns are capapble of doing.Oh…and if you do have kids at home, Get a safe or a gun luck. You chose to purchase a gun. Now…be responsible.
@lol – What are you going on about? “thats not a real sniper”? What?
Of course it’s not. It’s a gun. Neither is it a sniper rifle. I’m pretty sure no one here has claimed such.
ow ok sorry then
how dit u get 1 man
i wane know if i can
hi am lol
i schance me name
sorry i was thinking it was a sniper but i apolecies :P
bye
To click click boom, I agree with your comments about education.
However , remember that most of the criminal street element that uses guns are from broken homes where there is no discipline and in some cases the parents are just as bad as the kids. As stated by another earlier most fire arms used in crimes are “black market” weapons.
Moving on , It always makes me chuckle when I read something from a snobbish uptight liberal european (ie.”your-a-pee-on”) that is so arrogant it amazes me that he or she will even waste time to consider us low down scurvy close-minded Americans. They always seem to exude an air of superiority and try to speak as though they are all so much more educated and worldly than the rest of us clowns.
I guess if I was in his or her shoes reading comments from some buffoon like ” lol ” , I would have some disdain as well. That is if lol is even an American Citizen.
Anyhow, JM that’s a nice rifle. I’ll bet you didn’t expect all this when you started this page. If you did, more power to you !
To all in the service, THANK YOU !
Im picking up my Kel-Tec su16 model c next week. I love Kel Tec weapons. I have never had a single problem with my Kel Tec p11 9mm and i have often heard that the su 16 model rifles are extremely reliable and only encounter problems when firing exotic ammunition. ill let you know how my model c does in the field. i am excited to try out its ability to fire in the folded stock position. I like your rifle very much by the way :-)..im considering buying the compact forend but i may decide to keep the folding bi-pod instead.
ALSO id like to say to all who believe that Americans are a stupid and ignorant people as a whole, that it is ignorant in its self to judge an entire society by the actions of criminals and less than desirable citizens. owning a gun does not mean that you intend to commit any crime at all. i ,for example, love hunting. i use my rifles as tools for hunting. it is simply the way i was raised. does it make me a bad person because i was raised shooting guns regularly and hunting? and i’m sure that ill get many people talking about how hunting is wrong, but that is not the issues at hand. It isn’t right to attack other people for things that we cannot change. A lot of Americans grew up around guns and as a result are very comfortable around them. so is it really right to call us names for simply having the right to bear arms?..people will fight and people will kill no matter what the weapon at hand happens to be. and the fact is that many criminals in America have, and use, guns. so we, the average law abiding citizens, have the right to protect ourselves. again is that wrong?..in my opinion its not..and if you have a different opinion that’s fine..you have that right..but please don’t judge Americans by the select criminals who cause trouble for the average citizen. trust me..we don’t like them either. i mean no disrespect to anyone ..just trying to bring a different point of view into light
I am buying mine tomorrow- yours is very cool indeed.
Where did you get the locking pin upgrade? That looks like a must!!!
Thanks for being so patient with the idiots, morons, democrats, liberals, French, and other assorted criminals that tried to put you and all us Americans down – Ken
Forgot to ask- you have a 3-9x scope- hows that working for you? I was looking at a lower power (1.5 or 2x) for quicker CQB use – just wonderign and forgot to ask earlier- Thanks
The upgraded pin is a $2 hitch pin from Home Depot :)
The scope ended up being a piece of junk, fyi. A stablizing type rubber ring in the front fell out and the shock of shooting eventually shattered the front glass piece.
I now have a Bushnell Holosight. Kicks ass.
“Thanks for being so patient with the idiots, morons, democrats, liberals, French, and other assorted criminals that tried to put you and all us Americans down – Ken”
Yeah, thank God there are no Republican and/or conservative idiots, morons and criminals in the U.S.
I live in the US, Maine to be more specific. Everyone here has a gun. You would be extremely hard pressed to find a household that didn’t have at least one gun in it. Looking at the number of people killed in Maine each year by guns I have about a .0012% chance of being killed by someone with a gun between the beginning of 2008 and the start of 2009. Now lets look at England. The average citizen of england is at a .0063% chance of getting shot. And if i remember correctly England has banned almost all types of firearms? So, your more than 5 times as likely to get shot in a country which bans guns that a state that has some of the loosest gun control laws in the US
Nice idea for the pin upgrade.
As mentioned I have two of these rifles (SU-16 CA) and I love them. Two for the price of an AR. For someone like me that doesn’t shoot much these days (4 or 5 times a year)these are nice. I think they’re nice for beginners as well.
One has the forend conversion like yours with a laser added as well as a triple rail mount added above the reciever with a six watt LED light and a scope. It also has CA legal phantom striker muzzle brake (not flash hider). Although it is still completely CA legal, I don’t take that one out much because of the atention it draws. The other one is completely “stock” (bad pun).
I should have mentioned all that earlier but I let myself get drawn into the political debate.
I see no problem in teaching my children self defense in hand to hand combat as well as with fire arms (4 girls and 1 boy). Safety first as always.
“Yeah, thank God there are no Republican and/or conservative idiots, morons and criminals in the U.S.”
Nope- no such animal- by the very description conservatives are superior to idiot liberals in every way- the moron dems/libs just don’t have the smarts to know it- you proved that Anon. Republicans such as Bush- different animal-
Just your girly way of not even being man enough to leave your name says a lot. My guess is that you are a make up wearing metro sexual with, let us say in polite company, problems in the pants. Let me guess, is your name Leslie, or Dale – or some other name that can go…”either way”…very telling of your personality.
Great gun Jeff. It’s the perfect size to take out for an afternoon of target punching. I like the .223 round too, its very affordable and has low recoil. Don’t let the libtards get under your skin about owning a nice gun like that. I read several comments that were pretty nasty. I think that many of those people have never touched or fired a gun. Guns are a safe as the person holding it.
Jeff Thx for posting shot one yesterday buying one tomorrow.
To all the anti-American readers remember this. Looking at History America has bailed one or more of your collective asses on (some on more than one occasion). 1) Sometimes for our “National interests” comes with being the #1 Nation on the planet. 2).Because simply we can (get over it), 3) most notably because the majority your shit ass little countries could be overrun by a sizable group of Army Ants.
America has it fair share of problems just like other countries crime not with standing. I own a gun because I love my family and will not be unprepared if someone unlawfully comes into my house looking to do ill will. What will you do throw your pet rock at them ? Great have fun watching as your wife/daughters get raped while you do nothing about it because you have a Smith & Wesson to your temple and not enough balls to do something about it. Grow up. Lastly it’s DAMN tough being #1 because you have to constantly worry about everyone else’s frigging problems.
Assuming I still have your 5th grade attention span, do a little research on Switzerland and it will teach you about guns in the hands of responsible individuals. Why is the crime rate so low? Because in Switzerland at one point, (not sure if it is still true)it is/was required that everyone spend sometime in the military, that everyone own a firearm, the same reason why the President of the Country is able to ride the train to work each day without a security force ??? BECAUSE EVERYONE OWNS A GUN ?? Nobody Dares.
God Bless America.
My gun collection is too large to list, but I do have the SU-16CA. Haven’t got a chance to shoot it yet. Another good thing about it is that it takes AR-15 magazines. Seeing that I have that gun too, that is a big plus for me, especially because they are of the high capacity type.
One fact I never saw here is that the 2nd amendment was set in place so that the citizens of the U.S. would have the ability to fight off the government of our own country should it become oppressive/tyrannical. The founders of the constitution and the new government were very wary of the “monster” they were creating. The constitution does not give us citizens rights. It forbids the government from taking the natural, God-given rights away from us. In this case, the right to defend ourselves from aggression both foriegn and domestic… Fighting the government these days would be a losing battle.. Ask Randy Weaver’s family, and the slaughtered men, women and children of Waco, but the intent of the founding fathers is clear from reading their writings. Of course, no children in our schools these days would ever be taught these truths.. History has shown around the world that society can break down in the most tragic of ways. God forbid it could happen in the U.S. But should it occur, my family and I will be prepared to defend ourselves. My sons started shooting at 3 and 4 years of age and are very good at now 16 and 8 years old. They were raised knowing where the loaded guns were, just like they knew where the steak knives were on the kitchen counter along with every other dangerous tool around the house. And they were not to touch. Just like they were not to touch the glowing red coils on the kitchen stovetop! I could go on but will stop for now…
Love the pic…stumbled on the site cb/c I’m looking at purchasing this rifle.
I used to be anti-gun like a lot of the europeans and australians on this board. But then my mental faculties improved and I became more and more skeptical and started to question most of my beliefs. Turns out I really enjoy shooting sports and am quite good at it. Oh yeah, and I like the fact that I can level the playing field if someone decides to invade my home which happens frequently in all countries.
Since we’re generalizing, Australians and Euros aren’t the most skeptical group of people on the planet. They love their homeopathy and psychics and astrology and believe just about anything that makes them feel good. Since there’s nothing to feel good about when talking about self defense with deadly force, they rather cast derision on anyone who would not lay down and be a victim.
It’s not really their fault. For centuries in Europe, sticking your neck out and having your own thoughts meant that you got your head chopped off. This means that the meek, mindless and easily controlled were the ones who survived. Australia, well that’s just where all the dumb criminals who got caught and had nothing else to offer society got shipped.
America has a proud tradition of free thinkers and attracted the best of these people while the proles and criminals drudged out their meager existence in the shadows of their nobles.
FYI I know where Denmark and Great Britain are and I speak French and German fluently. I was born in West Germany while the people who would give up their guns were being protected from Communism by free men and the sons of the Greatest Generation who would not be conquered.
guns make war, people without guns can do nothing.. people with guns dangerous, people with no freinds, killers.. just like at your high school killings.. god damn u amaricans are stupid.. and thats a fact.. im from denmark.. where is denmark? without looking on a map?? tell me.
where is australia, wheres GB. what is GB?? U STUPID FUCKES!!
____________________________________________________
I must apologize for this ignorant Dane…sigh
I am from Denmark but live in Texas. You can’t take the values from Denmark and put them on the people in the US. The countries are founded on completely different values. Denmark is pretty much a socialist country and the people expect the government to care of their every need. Although I miss some stuff like free healthcare I still would rather live in the US. Just because you don’t agree with the way things are done, there is just no need to start talking sh*t when you have no idea what you are talking about!
Who cares where Denmark is if you are not Danish?
Do you know all the states in the US, or who the 18’Th president was?
Anyway…nice SU-16…im thinking of getting one myself. I own P3AT from Kel Tec and i love it :)
My 2 cents…
It always amazes me just how closed minded and intolerant all those open minded tolerant liberals are. Now that the libs pretty much control all arenas of the U.S. Gov. (with pres. elect obama waiting to take office) , I would guess that another Federal gun ban is just around the corner. The insanity that is liberalism will get even worse.
Already we have people who oppose the death penalty yet are pro abortion-figure that one out if you can.
The people that cry the most about protecting free speech are the first try to shut you up or get you kicked off the radio if you are conservative, or meerly disagree with thier views.
People holding “Peace” and “No-War” signs, hitting people with those signs that disagree with them at rallies.
They say they’re socially liberal but fiscally conservative.
(Impossible-you have to tax and spend to support all those social programs.)
People with “Peace and Tolerance” rainbow signs in thier window, screaming that they HATE you.
I’ve seen all of this first hand (I work in Berkeley).
These are just a few of the contradictions that are part of the make up of the insanity called liberalism. Just read some of the vehement comments on this page, especially from some of our peace loving euopean neighbors. They accuse U.S. citizens of being ignorant and violent at the same time they are calling us names and saying we deserve to die.
This kind of stuff used to really get me angry. Then one day I realized , that you can’t get mad at a dog for acting like a dog. Some of thier antics still get me angry once in a while, but I try not to let it control my actions.
They are insane, and that’s how they act.
The best we can do (without the possibility of euthanasia-for actual definition look it dictionary ), is to limit the damage they cause. After all they do serve a purpose – to remind the rest of us all that we are still sane.
I hope this helps. If it angers you , maybe you’re insane (liberal) and need to see a shrink. The only problem with that is, most of them are insane as well !
Happy Hunting and God Bless America !
Paul S. , it is nice to know I’m not the only Zombie hunter out there
“European” and “Liberal” (among others)…
You need to snap out of your delusions. Be honest, and remember who ultimately saved your ancestors from the facists back in 1941 – the gun proficient Yanks of the United States (who, in many cases, had already learned how to shoot at home, before they enlisted). The fact is, America’s law-abiding gun culture is the civilian analogue of the American military culture that exists to further democratic governments around the world (i.e., the training starts at home). On the streets, the vast majority of Americans use firearms only as a last resort to defend themselves, and in war we Americans are there to defend all freedom-loving peoples. Go take some U.S. firearm training classes and find out for yourself.
The Brits whining about gun ownership- that’s too funny! You’d be speaking German if wasn’t for the barbaric Yanks! Ten of thousands Americans GAVE their personal firearms to the British people to arm themselves in anticipation of a German invasion. After the Yanks saved your pompous arses, your government promply rounded up the donated firearms and destroyed them!
Also- could someone please explain how there are ANY firearm deaths in a country where firearms are banned? On an island? Anyone? Cue the crickets….
The first thing early man learned was to kill. Kill to survive. Ever since then what any man prided himself on was the dexterity and perfection he put into his killing. Man used to practice with bone clubs. Man used to practice with sharpened blades. Man practiced with bows and arrows. Man practiced and practice still today with guns. Man practices with planes and bombs and so on. The ability and pride we hold in killing is ingrained into our very instincts and even deeper soul. Take away guns man will practice physical war. Man practices war in our games Ex wrestling, football, any sport has a link to warfare, be it speed and throwing deadly objects in track and field or evasion and tactical taking of enemy ground in soccer (football for my European friends). The greatest weapon of all is the human body. We will always compete with our weapon. Be it peaceful competition or in deadly warfare. I pray that it be peaceful play but, there is evil in the world and banning guns wont stop evil nor deter any crime or war from occurring. Only God can save this Earth. To quote US military terms… The world is and always will be S.N.A.F.U. (situation normal all fucked up… meaning the normal occurrence is screwed up.
Very nicely put Cass , thank you !
Another side to this issue that I think some people forget is ,
the fathers of our country deliberately gave us the right to
own ARMS for a real reason. Not because they were gun crazy psychos. I am personally grateful to them that they had the foresight to do this. At the time, they were fighting a dictator from across the pond. They wanted to insure future generations safety from an oppressive government or dictator right here at home. Thank you for thinking of us and thank you for creating this – The Greatest Country in this not so perfect world.
I’m not saying the U.S. is perfect. We have our problems, but consider the alternatives. We have it pretty good here. Why do you think so many people from “other” countries are coming here – FREEDOM !
The reality is there will always be a certain percentage of dangerous bullies being born. Especially since now days, they are not deleted from the gene pool like in the past. NO, we just support them with our own hard earned tax dollars, this is something that I am quite sick of to tell you the truth.
UTOPIA is a wonderfull idea. But that’s all it will ever be.
It starts with little children taking toys from other weaker children. Do I think this is right ? Of course not ! But is it reality ? Yes ! Particularly considering the fact that now days parental authority is undermined by “liberal ethics” and way over the top political correctness.
The previous four posts got it right.
As always thank you for allowing me my two cents. I’ll climb down off my soap box now.
God Bless America and those that defend it !
P.S. Keep an eye out for ZOMBIES,they are out there !
Max Brooks was right.
Just had a thought for those of you that are not aware.
.223rem commercial ammo and 5.56nato military ammo are not always interchangable. 5.56nato chambered rifles and .223rem chambered rifles have slightly different chamber characteristics and different max pressure tolerance. SOME (not all) rifles are designed to use both types of ammo.
Both of my KEL-TEC SU-16CA rifles are marked with only 5.56mm on the right side of reciever, not .223rem ! I know that the SU-16 manual has (.223rem) after 5.56nato, but that does not necessarily mean .223rem is ok to use. The manual further states that “ammo type is on the reciever,do not use any other type.” As 5.56mm is the only type marked on the reciever,it is prudent that you contact KEL-TEC just to make sure, if you do not already know the facts. My advice,contact them anyway.
It is my understanding that you can use .223rem ammo in a 5.56nato chambered rifle but do not take my word for it! There may be accuracy issues due to the longer leade.
Using military 5.56nato ammo in a.223rem chambered rifle can lead to excesive stress and wear and may be unsafe,due to higher pressures of this military ammo.I have read that SAAMI recommends NOT to use 5.56nato in a.223rem rifle. Look for flattening or gas stains on primers as a sign of excessive pressure.
I have had people argue with me about the above info.
I STRONGLY RECOMMEND that you find out for yourself, DO NOT rely on my word.
As stated before,there are rifles that are designed for both types of ammo. As ALWAYS , The best way to find out for sure is to CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER of the rifle in question,or a qualified gun smith.
I only brought this up to let people know that there is some confusion out there on this subject and that you should take personal responsibility to find out the facts for your own safety from qualified pros. which I AM NOT !!
If there are any others that can chime in on this , please do.
I have seen a lot of people get hurt over the last 28 years of my shooting experience due to improper reloading and improper use of ammo and fire arms.
Remember safety first as always.
Hi i lived in a bad part of miami for four years i have owned a firearm all my life. one night a man broke into my house. thirty minutes later the ambulane arrived for me. and a coroner for the illegal alien that brought a gun into my home. now tell me one good reson to outlaw firearms. if you outlaw guns only outlaws will have guns. BRING ON THE HATE MAIL!!!!
by the way i now live in a state bigger than dennmark and great britan hasnt really mattered since we kicked its ass
Nice looking Kel-tec, I prefer the SU-16A, which i have. It has a Nikon 3-9, and the forarm upgrade, with a pistol grip on it. I intend to upgrade the butt-stock to a M-4 style when i get the money. To the US and gun haters, mind your own, Nobody told you, you had to visit this site. I have been alot of countries, including Iraq, and the UK, and I dont blame the entire country for the few idiots I have met, and seen on here. I own lots of guns, and I use them for protection and hunting, so say what you will, it wont change my mind.
I Like my su16ca
I’ve got an SU-16C that’s been upgraded over the years with the tactical forend, pistol grip, an Ace folding telescoping stock and an EOTech sight. rnrn
I’ve been interested in EOTech for some time now but haven’t really had time to do any research. Got any suggestions ?
Big Daddy, you can’t go wrong with an Eotech, they are the best sight out there. When I was in Iraq that was the sight we all used on our M-4’s. They cost a great bit of money, but if you can afford it, get one.
That’s a nice gun, man. I’ve been looking at hunting rifles and that one’s in my price range. How accurate is it?
And you European people need to chill a bit. If you don’t want to marvel at how awesome the US is, you can simply refrain from posting. Plus, you shouldn’t be picking fights with people who have the right to bear arms. I’d hate for you to have to put down your scone and get whatever weapons with which you Europeans murder each other to defend yourself.
That’s a nice gun, man. I’ve been looking at hunting rifles and that one’s in my price range. How accurate is it?rnrnAnd you European people need to chill a bit. If you don’t want to marvel at how awesome the US is, you can simply refrain from posting.
I just happened to come across this thread because I have recently purchased a Kel-Tec su 16b and noticed the picture of your gun with its scope. I will be adding optics after I become familiar with the gun. However, I found the discussion here about the so-called American “obsession” with guns to be interesting. I think Big Daddy has well-stated the issue. The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution is in place for a very specific purpose. Many Europeans and ill-educated Americans do not grasp this purpose. All it takes is a little historical research surrounding the discussions and debates concerning the ratification of the 2nd Amendment to come to a clear understanding of its purpose. The Framers of the Constitution did not write the 2nd Amendment to ensure that Americans have firearms with which to hunt or defend themselves. Yes, they serve these purposes. However, the 2nd Amendment has a more precise purpose; namely, to assure that the American citizenry can resist tyrannical government. The Framers, based upon their experience, believed that the greatest bulwark against political tyranny was an armed populace. Furthermore, they believed that all of the other enumerated rights of citizenship were ultimately dependent upon the 2nd Amendment. Without the 2nd Amendment, all other rights are “up for grabs.”
For many generations Americans adamantly did NOT want to be dependent upon a centralized and powerful government. They had resisted and wrested their freedoms from a centralized monarchical government. Therefore, the right to keep and bear arms is both a symbol and a substance for those Americans who consider personal liberty and civic responsibility to be the road to social happiness. Others, though, are willing to trade their liberties for Odysseus’ siren song of “security.” Consequently, they are mystified and even horrified by the notion that men like Jefferson and modern American individuals actually cherish their firearms.
Benjamin Franklin — “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
Here I was, doing some pre-purchase research on the SU-16 and I saw the anti-gun ramblings of “Liberal” and “European.”
OK guys, I’ll admit it, my guns (yes I have more than one) are for killing people. The fact is, some people need killing. No, I’m not talking about political leaders here, I’m talking about the lazy, undisciplined, and dangerous people we call violent criminals.
While YOU may live in a world where no human being has ever or will ever harm another, the rest of us have to live in a world were bad people can and will do us harm if they are given the opportunity.
“Call the police,” you say. Well, as a former law enforcement officer, I can tell you that there aren’t enough police to protect each and every citizen. It is more often the case that the police get there after a criminal has harmed an innocent person. We have a saying: “When SECONDS count, the police are only MINUTES away.”
“If you didn’t have so many guns out there, you wouldn’t have so much crime,” you say. Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but we humans were doing just fine robbing and killing each other for a few thousand years before guns came along. That argument is like saying that you should ban matches to prevent fires.
Criminals will obtain the weapons they feel they need in order to victimize other people, laughing at restrictive gun (or for that matter, knife) laws as they do so. Criminals are also known as outlaws. This means they see themselves as living outside the law. How will any law result in their compliance?
Lastly, speaking for myself, I do not love my guns. I love the liberties they represent. The United States was founded during a revolution against a tyrannical government. This revolution occurred only after years of attempted diplomacy. It was armed citizens that started that revolution that won the rights that citizens of my country now enjoy. Rights that much blood has been spilled to defend. While I do not advocate or wish for another revolution, I do think it absolutely vital for the citizens of a constitutional republic to maintain the means to resist tyranny, should the government lose it’s legitimacy by violating the restraints placed on it by the constitution.
I refused to stand by and be victimized; by my government or by a common criminal. My personal security, the security of my family, and that of my fellow law-abiding citizens is my responsibility. Police, as brave gallant as I know they are, simply are not numerous enough to protect each and every citizen every minute of every day. If they were, we would live in a police state. In such a state, there would be no privately owned firearms and we might even be safer, but there would be no freedom. Certainly, there would not be forums such as this one. So I’ll keep my guns under my rights under the second amendment. I’ll keep them right next to my copy of the constitution.
I also stumbled upon this site researching the Kel Tec SU-16CA. I enjoyed reading the comments from both sides(except the profanity). I have a couple of hand guns that have seen very few rounds since I left college and it’s pistol team. I don’t have much time for shooting sports, it takes lots of practice to be very good.
I am shopping for a .223 auto loader, not because I particularly want to have one, rather I feel that it is my responsibility as an American citizen to have the tools on hand to defend my country and constitution if it is necessary.
Things have changed here in America in the last six months, with the economy and change of administration. Gun prices are way up, and both ammunition and guns, in many calibers, are scarce. Some of this is a reaction to uncertain economic times, and I believe some of it is from concern that we might be facing unconsitutional gun legislation.
I wish I had purchased an auto loading .223 when Jeff purchased his, a couple of years ago, when they were still bargains and relatively available. Now it looks like there is a 12 to 16 week leadtime to get one.
If anyone reading this has an idea where one might be available. I would appreciate a point in the right direction.
(google can lead you to my contact info)
Combat-vet , Thank you for the info. Sorry I’ve been away for awhile. Had to do some intervention work on teen boy snooping around one of my daughters for the last year. Thank fully it all turned out ok with him DXed from our lives (peacefully of course).
I think I’ll save up for the EOTech. Now that state and FEDERAL taxes will be going up (Thank you obama bin laden),
it’ll probably take awhile.
MANY THANKS to you COMBAT-VET for your service to me ,my family, and the rest of this great nation !!!!!!!!!!
Daveforest and Ken Din , just wondering if you ever picked up your kel-tecs and how you liked ‘em.
One of the anonys caught my eye while scrolling down and I felt compelled to respond, although it was meant for jeff,
“yet i which i could really esteem your human conscience…and that you realized what your fighting for by defending free possession of guns.”
and
“its sad to say, but 90% of the population is brainwashed by the illusional world that the US leaders have created….”
I have to say that Thomisticguy was spot on, that without the 2nd Amendment, all other rights are “up for grabs.”
I would like to think that’s what we’re all fighting for by defending the right to bare arms.
As to the populace being brainwashed your completely confused. The brainwashing being done is by the libs and one world government types, trying to get everyone to beleive that simply talking and wishing will make the goblins go away.
From yet another anon,
“guns make war, people without guns can do nothing.. ”
This kind of ignorance doesn’t even deserve a proper response !
The follwing is a quote from sgtm8411,
“We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm”…. Im an active duty U.S. Marine and I guess im one of the afore mentioned “rough men”. I’ve been shooting guns my whole life and I’ve never killed anyone. Im a relatively peaceful person unprovoked. However, threaten my family and it doesnt matter if i have a gun or not cause’ your taking a dirt nap one way or the other.
Edmund Burke (a british statesmen) said “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing”. The criminals will get guns illegaly but you will deny the “good men” the ability to protect their own civil liberties. The world is a violent place and as civilized as mankind may be, we are savages at heart with visceral instincts that date back to primordial man. Just because I am equipped to kill someone doesnt make me a “killer”. {for you liberals} your mother’s are “equipped” to be whores but are they ???
This is so simple yet so profound I felt it should be repeated. Thank you.
Paul Schaffner, Did you ever pick up that M1A ?
Have one – AWESOME ! It’s a good 7.62 reach and touch rifle.
I bought a TRG-22 instead, I decided on precision over rapid-fire.
Don’t know much about that one, isn’t that a SAKO ? If it’s the one I’m thinking of , it sure looks like it’ll get the job done.
Just got some pics from a buddy. Nice 308 !
I cannot believe the garbage that some people post… I am simply disgusted that someone would even take the time to post things that don’t make any sense – self righteous, know it all comments. I grew up in a Eastern European country for 17 years, and moved to the USA where I lived the next 17 years. All I can say is wow, what a difference!!! I own number of guns, and practice every day, and love my country (USA) which is the greatest country in the world!!! This is why everyone is moving here, you morons, rather than moving to Denmark, Eastern Europe, or Iran for that matter! I know what happens when the state owns all of the weapons, and know it from experience, first hand that is! This is where you are at the mercy of your government, and sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t… I know one thing, I would never allow someone else to run my life again, and I believe the only reason you bitch and post here is because of simple jelaousy, since you are still there, and can’t do whatever you wish! Freedom and Liberty is why United States is the #1 nation in this world, and everyone else strives to be like it. Haters will always be around, but whatever you say doesn’t matter, it’s just a waste of internet space, and you know it! Grow up, and buy a gun if you are man enough, defend your freedom and liberty, stand up for what you believe in. Otherwise just shut up and hide in your hole…
fear is the lack of knowledge, the less you know about guns the scarier they are. guns dont scare me, hell ive built a few, what scares me is how much better the criminals aim is than mine
I just have to say that this is hilarious, frightening and retarded all at the same time.
Also, thank you to the few users who posted well thought out comments.
That is all.
Thanks Big Daddy, but I was just doing my job, which I love. sorry for taking so long to reply, I have been bussy. good luck getting your EOTech, I hope to get one soon also.
Why would ANY human being willingly give up any right to defend themselves? It is astounding. This all started when we gave up our power to women who now demand everything be done in the name of “safety” of children. Most woman will believe that the world can be made safe, and so push to have guns “banned”. So do men with feminine minds. Then never realize that the “banning” of guns simply stacks them in the hands of governments and governments INEVITABLY turn tyrannical. You trust only police with guns? Where do you think police officers come from? Special eggs? A “safe person” hatchery? No, the safest place to put power is NOT to concentrate it, but to distribute it. That is the safest world for our children Much safer than gas chambers, concentration camps, or being hacked to death with machetes like in Africa. There would be no Holocausts or Darfur’s in a world of freely armed civilians.
Actually im from Europe too,
And no im not surprised an American show his new “babe” on his Website.
Im not surprised because its more common there.
This doesnt mean Americans are Gun loving killers. They just have more freedom do Buy and own it, so more People actually do.
I had to say many about my “european buddies” but i deleted it.. May be to offensive….
In Fact if it would be alowed i would like to own such a nice peace above (but there are also other on my wishlist too lol)
I Agree that Guns where invented in first line for Shooting (mosty people) and or animals.
And ife youve got a good training you know that if youve to shoot youve normaly to kill too … thats a truth….
But means not everyone who owns or want to own a gun want to use it in that way.
Some of us never think about kiling someone (except for our own survival but right now i dont know if i could ever be in that situation for such desicion)
Most men are somewhere deep inside smallkids .. so me . We like the mechanik. we like the shooting. the power, the noise.. everything around. the technik. the theory… the customizing.
the last thing the most of us think is shoot someone with it. (Except our hunters ok they want some meet on the table hehe).
its naturally human. one part its fun with it another the old human hunting instincs.
Same kind of instincs let us make families and bring us every day to work…
And in FACT i BET everything in the RIGHT Situation 98% of all Adult Humas (lets say 18-60) are able and willing to kill some human beiing.
The Situation made strongly differ but ready isn nearly everyone. Its in our nature. Has nothing to do with americans. has nothing to do with gunowners.
And belvie it or not. A “good” gun owner not only knows as much as he can about his “toy”. he knows not only how to use it. he know also what it do.
how powerful and dangerous it is. he will consider minimum twice bovre he shoot (doenst matter on what or why).
He will also recive some trainig to handle it well.
So in a bad or dangerous situation someone like that is much better than a paniced “liberal” who never had a gun in his hands and rised other life too because he has no clue what to do and what is safe to do…
So ife youre a liberal and dont like guns . Ok dont used it.
You dont want to defend yourself becasuse you think violence is bad.. ok dont do it.
will you do for you children?
will you do for your wife?
do you really belive if we destroy all weapons noone get hurt again?
do you know that in my country most of all murdered people got NOT killed by an gun (there so unbeliveable many other ways and humans find ways if they have too)
uuuhh yes i forgot we give all important things to other hands. like police or military because they are the good they should wear guns to protect us ….
do you have a clue which guys you can find sometimes there????
oh no they should wear guns too ok agreed (some of them shouldnt really)
and who will protect us? noone?
oh man. its ok to be liberal (im in fact polical more liberal). its ok to be pacifist.
BUT GOD DAM BE A REALISTIC PACIFIST. Otherwise the world will never get better. Force wins thats a psysical law
PS: sorry for my english, isnt my native language… :-)
Combat Vet , Thanks for the luck. Still working on it . Had to get my DONT TREAD ON ME (rattlesnake) tattoo finished first.
Truer , while I agree with your overall message, I have to disagree with the part about women. My wife was hunting as a child long before I ever did. I actually know more men that favor gun bans than woman. Maybe it just depends on location.
A huge majority of the women I know here in CA support gun rights. Its the (un)- informed know it all males around here that would rather sit in the bathroom with the door locked talking to 911 while thier wives are getting raped instead of living up to thier marriage vows to protect thier loved ones.
And by the way, marriage is defined literally as a union of HUSBAND and WIFE ! NOT husband and husband, NOT wife and wife, Not human and dog,sheep,donkey or anything else you freaks want to have sex with !
Glad I could put that to rest for everyone. It need never be an issue that any of us should have to ever debate again.
Wow ! For a minute I kinda sounded like some lib senator telling everyone what was best for them at some town hall.
another european, got news for you, you can be a conservative and still be a pacifist. You don’t sound very liberal to me.
one of the requirements of being conservative is to be a realist. The so called LIBS try to protect only thier own freedoms that they intend we should have. CONSERVATIVES wish to protect all the FREEDOMS granted to US citizens by our CONSTITUTION ! Thats what it’s all about. Protecting our citizens,freedoms,borders,language and culture. All of this is pretty much diametrical to the so called liberal !
Welcome to the fold.
Getting back to the original topic here (KEL-TEC SU-16CA), I really like the fact that the gas chamber is over barrel (ala AK-47).
You can thoroughly strip and clean these rifles without having to worry about wear,bedding and accuracy issues as with some of our older underbarrel western military rifles.
Really I just think the overbarrel looks cooler.
The two I have are pretty damn accurate with peep hole sights at 100 yds. For the price you just cant beat these. Of course I picked mine up – wow has it been a few years already. Couldn’t tell you what they go for now . I’m sure they’ve gone up some by now. Who knows in this crazy place.
Nice SU-16CA. Personally I don’t know a whole lot about firearms. The only weapons I’ve fired were a 12 Gauge Shotgun (don’t remember the brand), and a .22.
Nice weapon though, maybe you’ll start a collection? Maybe you already have!
BTW: I honestly think that “Liberal” and “European” are just being trolls; based on their poor grammar, outlandish stereotypes, and inability to post a reasonable and coherent thought or idea.
Either that or they never graduated high school.
Hey, whats up JAY like the rifle. I have the same one, but with a whole lot more features on it. The only thing from the orig. su16 is the barrel, mag and firing assem (lower receiver). It looks almost identicle to a AR-15 now. I have pics if anyone wants to see it and what you can do to this rifle, including a pist grip assem, tele-scoping but stock and etc.
Jeff, finally got around to looking at your links (I know I’ve turned into such a lazy bastard. It’s the job and those kids, they get in the way of everything. Wait a minute, I’m not a liberal. I actually have a real job and family-not just pets. I actually enjoy my kids and supporting them. I’m just tired of supporting other peoples kids. Maybe I should get fired, then I could actually afford to put all MY OWN kids through college – on those tax paying people! No I couldn’t that, too many libs count on the taxes I pay. Conservatives work so the libs don’t have to! After all – basket weaving, painting murals and the recitation of poems in a quaint little ‘coffee-house’ is so much more important to the growth of our society and country than actual real work).
Back to the point. Your spot on as usual with the info! You know the saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. Well – you can lead a lib to reality but they’ll only drink the cool aid.
Thank you for your contributions to the cause.
Very well said Big Daddy. I work hard for what I have and come hell or socializm I will keep it!!!!
Well ‘Conservitive’, you know that if you give these libs an inch they’ll take 35 miles. Look at this buffoon of a president we have now. He quads. the national debt in 6 months then has the nerve to express that one way to clear up the debt that Bush left him is to cut the defense budget. These are the people that always cry about the gov. intruding too far into our lives, but they are the ones that make it so whenever they get more than an ounce of power !
‘Public option’ give me a break ! This has very little to do with health care and everything to do with more gov. control of our lives.
These people cried out that privacy was infringed upon by the gov. listening in on suspected terrorist phones; yet they want the gov. to have control over one of our most sacred things (our own health). They admittedly can’t even run the mail properly. Am I going mad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why does the gov. want GE to maintain all of our private medical records in one centralized gov. controlled location. Our Health records are none of their DAMN business !!!!!!!!!
It’s nice to hear from a fellow like the ‘European’ above JJ Slap Nuts. Sounds like he has actually lived on both sides of the pond for many years and knows what it’s like to live in a place with resticted freedoms.
Sorry for any mispells as I am a little riled at the moment.
They want to take our right to own fire-arms , then it will be much easier to control us and take away more of our rights by giving themselves (gov) more rights and or powers !
Keep buying those fire-arms and ammo. while we still have the right ! I live in CA so as you can see I take these ‘gun’ issues very seriously. We have enough ‘gun’ restrictions here already !
BLOW BY BLOW, just keep on BLOWING. It sounds as if that’s pretty much all you know.
So just keep on-a puffing. Just wipe your face when he’s done !
Sorry to the rest of you, that was just to easy.
this is only directed at the foulmouthed oz gidaymate but it may also apply to some of you yanks who write your own history, (I onl;y read posts as far down as the oz) so far, but let me ask a question, how many wars have the aussies won, on their own, none, or the yanks won on their own, apart from the war of independence, none.
I believe in the Americans right to bear arms, but my beliefs do not change the fact they have more gun crime than the uk, others have said it more eloquently than I, but guns dont kill people, people kill people, and its usually bad people killing other bad people, thankfully.
I have served in the British army and served along side Australians, NZ, US and Belgian, Dutch, Norwegian, Swiss and German, actually every country in europe now i think of it, but ive only listed the ones i have friends in, so in consequence i wont be slagging anyone off, ive put an and between US and Belgian, dont want anyone thinking i dont know my history sic
keep up the good work Jeff
x2zero,
No disrespect intened as I respect ALMOST all who serve.
What wars in europe did the US start and couldn’t finish !
WW I : Germany
WW II : Nazis from Germany
korea : north koreans backed by china and ussr
viet nam : french colonial forces could not contain viets and pulled out (once again ussr and china decided to assist in the spread communism) .
Some of us do know a little about history, even military history .
Thanks for your insight.
I just wanted to pop my 2 cents in. First off nice rifle.
“Liberal”, I feel you have the right to your opinion. I do not agree with the hole president comment, but your opinion was bought and paid for in blood, and I will defend to the death your right to that opinion!
“European” You too have the right to your opinion, and if you were in the United States of America, I would defend to the death your right as well.
Guns are not just a cultural thing. Our fore fathers knew that once you take the power away from the people, then a dictator ship would soon ensue.
I am not proud of some of the thing this country has done, but there is no country that can say they don’t have a blemish in their history as well.
Our right to bear arms in this country and most of those who do so, do if fore life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We have taken up arms to wage wars that were not even ours. Young men and women of our country have shed blood in yours so you could have the right to your opinion and this is how you see us, as barbaric warmongers.
Well I will keep shooting my guns and loving it, and I will practices on cans to become a dead aim, and pray to God on high that I will never have to use my honed skill domestically or abroad. And I will pray that you will never need me nor my brothers and sisters to fight for you as I wish you peace.
NOW WERE’S THE KEL-TEC SU-16C CHAMBERED IN .223, I GOT ME SOME ZOMBIES TO KILL!
Ray , I can not believe that no one has responded to your comments.
That was one of the best paragraphs on this page.
I thank you even though this is not my page.
God knows I spout off enough here that everyone is probably sick of me by now,
I don’t blame them.